026: Mindfulness, Intentionality, & the Power of the Pause with Pamela Dangelmaier
This is a generated transcript from a podcast episode.
026: Pamela Dangelmaier
Speaker 1
[00.00.00]
Hey, hey, welcome back to Real Food Mental Health with Cody Cox. Do you or somebody, you know,
have the need of having background noise all the time, either in the form of TV or music or maybe just a
fan blowing to go to sleep? Today's episode is about the power of silence, slowing down on purpose and
taking a pause. My guest today is Pamela Dingle Meyer. She is a certified life coach, mindfulness
practitioner, and motivational speaker, celebrated for her relatable humor and engaging storytelling. And
I can vouch for her storytelling. If you have not heard her TEDx talk, go listen to it. It's great. With a
graduate certificate in Mindfulness based Teaching and Learning from UFC, where she earned the award
for Outstanding Achievement and Further Training for Martha Beck's Wayfinder program. Pamela
combines her expertise with warmth and accessibility, making complex ideas easy to grasp and apply as
a founding member of the Mindful Coach Association and a member of the American Mindfulness
Research Association. Pamela is passionate about helping others find clarity, balance, and purpose. She
empowers audiences worldwide to unlock their potential and live more fulfilling lives. A TEDx speaker,
e-commerce entrepreneur, and published novelist. Pamela credits her diverse achievements to the
mindfulness techniques that inspire her daily to embrace life's adventures fully. And we cover some of
those techniques in today's episode. I hope you enjoy it!
Speaker 2
[00.01.47]
Welcome to the Real Food Mental Health podcast, where we explore the powerful connection between
mental and physical health. My name is Cody Cox, a holistic nutritional psychotherapist, and I'm here to
guide you on a journey to true wellness mind, body, and spirit. If you're tired of quick fixes and want real
solutions that address the root cause, you're in the right place. Let's. Let's get started on your path to
lasting wellness.
Speaker 1
[00.02.12]
Welcome, Pamela.
Welcome back to Real Food Mental Health with Kody Cox. Today I'm talking with Pamela Meyer.
Speaker 2
[00.02.19]
Well, thank you, Cody for having me on your podcast I appreciate it.
Speaker 1
[00.02.23]
So tell us a little bit about your background. I watched your Ted talk. It was great. Um, how did you get
into the the mindfulness, the the silence, the the things that you teach?
Speaker 2
[00.02.37]
Yeah. Well, that's a great question because of course, people often want to know, well, how did you even
get involved in this and why are you so passionate about it? Um, I actually think that I got involved in
mindfulness or were was interested in mindfulness really, truly, since I was a child. And if your listeners
actually do tune in and watch my Ted talk, which is called is There More to silence than just silence? Iactually go through stages in my life where, uh, although I may not have been wholly aware of it
consciously, but I have often been drawn to mindfulness techniques and in particular There to the power
of intentional silence. And so I went through my life doing all the things that, you know, some people
normally do growing up going to school, going to university. I traveled some, and then I started a
business. I became an entrepreneur. And it was truly, I think, at that point in my life, when I was in my
late 30s, early 40s, and I was struggling with the stresses and strains of the responsibilities of my work,
trying to balance it with my family life and all of that, that I really became drawn to mindfulness. And it
has been for me in many ways, a life saver and a life enhancer. And because of that, I am now on a
journey of sharing that power of mindfulness with others. Because I honestly believe that people can
benefit from integrating mindfulness techniques, in particular silence, into their lives. It's what I call the
power of the pause.
Speaker 1
[00.04.25]
Yeah, yeah, I believe that too. Um, how long ago was that that you found mindfulness?
Speaker 2
[00.04.32]
Um, in terms of the term mindfulness, I guess I didn't really even know that that's what it was, but I was,
um. It was interesting. Uh, it was probably about ten years ago. I was looking to go on a side at retreat.
I'd wanted to, you know, invest some time in myself and really explore that. And as I was doing that
online search, I came across a program at a university, uh, here in Canada, and that was offering actually
a graduate studies degree in mindfulness based teaching and learning. And when I started to look at that,
I thought, yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for, because not only will it help me understand the
practices of mindfulness, but also the scientific basis of mindfulness and the ability then to to bring it to
others in various formats and, and ways that I haven't done so. Yeah, it's, I would say intensively the last
ten years of my life have really been spent focusing a lot on the practice of mindfulness and living it day
to day.
Speaker 1
[00.05.45]
And it does seem like in the last ten years or so, it has grown exponentially in popularity. So as a licensed
psychotherapist myself, I have seen so many continuing education opportunities that are on mindfulness.
And so it's actually a pretty normal thing in psychotherapy these days. And it's also very well studied. So
you you mentioned, uh, more of a scientific background. And I think in many cases people just they think
of it as a buzzword or stigmatize it a little bit, but it actually does has have some very impressive science
behind it.
Speaker 2
[00.06.24]
Absolutely. Yeah. Mhm.
Speaker 1
[00.06.27]
So I actually I found mindfulness well probably a little bit after you as I think about it. I remember
reading a blog, I think I was looking for natural ways to overcome depression or something along those
lines. Somebody was talking about mindfulness in their blog. But interestingly, they never explained how
to do it. And so fast forward a few years, I think it may be it was about 2015 when I found that blog. A
few years later, 1718. Somewhere around there, I finally started seeing apps to give some free instruction
on mindfulness practices. And yes, I've been getting more and more into it ever since, and it's been a
powerful tool to have. I know it's it's a very simple practice, but the more you do it, the better.Speaker 2
[00.07.24]
Mhm. Yeah, that is true. That last sentence is particularly true because I sometimes think that when
people first come to mindfulness or their understanding of mindfulness, they say, oh yeah, but that means
that I have to commit to 20 to 40 minutes every day meditating. I have to create a space that's just for
that. I have to go through some kind of specialized training in order to understand how to do it properly.
And I say, okay, that's all fine and good. And perhaps for some people, yes, that's the route to go. But my
whole thrust and impetus in doing what I do is to help people understand that it doesn't matter where you
do it or how you do it, or even for how long you do it. As long as you do your very best to incorporate it
into your every day. The more you do it, the easier it is and the sooner you will experience the benefits.
It's like it's like going to the gym or going for a walk. If we do that every day, then we will feel better.
We will feel physically better. We will build our body muscles. We will free our minds. Sometimes we'll
get fresh air. Mindfulness is very much the same, and it can be a five minute, uh, mindful exercise. It can
be a two minute mindful exercise, and it can be done anywhere. You know, often I will give. When I
give my mindfulness courses, people will say, yeah, but you know, I've seen, you know, people there
sitting on a beach in Bali, they're sitting in a lotus position with incense and candles burning. And is that
what I need in order to practice mindfulness? And I say, no, I mean, you could practice mindfulness in
the grocery line at the store, or while you're at the bank, or while you're driving or while you're stirring
this, you know, you're you're creating your dinner at home. You have opportunities to practice
mindfulness anytime, anywhere, whenever you want.
Speaker 1
[00.09.20]
Yeah, I like to call it a formal versus an informal practice. Either way, it's a practice. So a formal
practice, at least the way I teach it is it's when you're sitting and you're doing nothing but mindfulness.
This is this is what we call meditation. And informal practice is when you are you're doing something
else, but you're being mindful with it. So. So you gave the example of driving. I used that example a lot
too, but also just taking a shower, eating any of these things you can be mindful with if you're being fully
present and accepting of the present.
Speaker 2
[00.09.57]
Yes. And thank you for defining that, because I was thinking, you know, some people may be listening
and thinking, well, what exactly is mindfulness? You know, what what what does it mean? And it's
exactly as you said, it's being having present moment awareness with acceptance. And acceptance is is
sometimes has a negative tone to it. People saying, well, if I have to accept the negative, what does that
mean? It simply means being aware of what is without judgment. In other words, if we have feelings of,
um, well, you say depression. If we notice we're feeling we're having feelings of depression. To simply
notice it and not pile on top of that. Oh well, you shouldn't be feeling that way. Or oh, isn't it terrible that
I'm feeling like that? That only actually makes the issue itself worse. So by simply understanding that
these are the feelings that I'm having, it's making my stomach upset or my breathing is is shortened or I
feel like I'm, I'm, I'm perspiration, you know, whatever it might be or my thoughts are continually being
dragged down simply to notice it. Because, you know, Cody, once we recognize the patterns, then then
finally we have an opportunity to do something about it. We are not powerless in in who we are. We as
individuals have great power and we have the opportunity to make changes once we notice. But until we
actually take the time to notice, we are like ships on the ocean without sails, we are just being battered
about by whatever the wind and the waves bring our way.
Speaker 1
[00.11.41]So what would you say to the person who maybe they have had no exposure to mindfulness so far, but
they're they're interested in it. How would you suggest they get started?
Speaker 2
[00.11.54]
Hmm. Great question. Um, I would say there's a lot of information on the internet about mindfulness. If
they're if they're connected to the internet, there's certainly great, uh, sites that one can visit. There's great
books as well on mindfulness. Um, but I would say if you're just starting out, perhaps just start with
breathing techniques in the sense of noticing your breath in mindfulness, the breath is our anchor. It's the
anchor to the present moment because we don't breathe into the future and we're not breathing into the
past. We are actually breathing in the here and now. And that is an opportunity for us to really anchor
ourselves, as I said in the now. So simply by noticing your breath for, say, a minute, just noticing your
breathing in. And your breathing out. What does that feel like physically? Do you notice the rhythm of
your breath? You're not trying to control it. It's just however your breathing at this moment in time. And
when we focus solely on our breathing, then we are anchored in the present moment. And that is
mindfulness. It's very simple.
Speaker 1
[00.13.18]
It is very simple. And how about somebody who seems like I have a lot of people who come back in
there, they say, oh, well, mindfulness doesn't work for me. I don't feel better. Or maybe I do feel better,
but it's in the moment. And then for the rest of the day, I still feel anxious or stressed or depressed or
angry or whatever it is. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2
[00.13.42]
Well, I would say, let's be grateful for the moments of mindfulness when you, as you said, didn't feel
stressed or depressed. And that is a key. That's a that's an opportunity. As I say, I sometimes say to
people, look, when you're practicing mindfulness, it gives you an opportunity to have a break from all
that's either dragging you down or making you feel anxious or stressed or whatever it might be. It's an
opportunity to say to those feelings, those thoughts, hey, you know what? I know you'll be there later, but
right now I'm going to experience what it's like to be here without you, or to be here with you and accept
you, but not attach to you like Velcro, you know, and and carry on with you. I do that during the rest of
the day. I have enough of that. But in this moment, I have an opportunity to just be. At peace with it. And
the more that we do it, the more people will experience it. Going into their day, I honestly think that
people sometimes give up on it too quickly. Um, it is it is a long term process, but anything that is
holistic is long term. You know, mindfulness is not a is not a pill that one can take and instantly resolve
your headache. But once we practice it for and be continuous with it. Um, studies have shown and we
mentioned the science before. Studies have shown that it will have long term effects for people. And and
I'm living proof of that. You know, uh, there was a point in my life when I was living in Europe and I
was in a very, very stressful job, and it got to the point where the buzzword burnout wasn't even a
buzzword at that time. But that's definitely what I experienced. And it physically manifested itself in in a
condition called hyper axis, where I literally heard everything like someone had turned the volume way,
way, way up on everything external sounds, my own physical sounds. The sound of my swallowing
sounded like was so loud me speaking was almost unbearable. And so what helped me, in fact, I was
forced into it, was to be silent, was to be quiet, was to turn down the volume on all the things that were
happening in my home environment the television, radio, whatever it might be. Just turn it right down.
And the silence eventually healed me. And it was one of the one of the nudges for me to to realize the
power of intentional silence and, and and mindfulness,
Speaker 1
[00.16.36]silence can be powerful. I think a lot of people have I consider it to be a trauma response if they feel like
they need to always have background noise. So, for instance, I've had I've known a lot of people who
they feel the need to have a TV on in the background all the time, or music playing all the time.
Speaker 2
[00.16.57]
But the silence can be very healing, and it has to be an intentional practice too. Like you were saying,
Where maybe you're just turning off that radio while you're driving and you're just listening.
Speaker 1
[00.17.12]
And it's interesting. I used to be really into music myself, but now I'm totally content driving down the
road in silence. I'm the same way, and I intentionally will turn on music, you know that I that I like to
listen to, but more often than not that I'm. I'm silent. Yeah. And I think you you touched on a subject that
is really, uh, important. And again, that comes up in my TEDx talk as well, is, is the question, why are
we so afraid of silence? I think a lot of people are very afraid of silence, as you said, they want to have
the TV on the radio going. They have to have constant background noise in order, uh, to feel
comfortable. And I honestly think that what we are afraid of is of what we might actually hear, and that is
our own wisdom, our own wisdom that will tell us, perhaps. This job isn't working for you. This
relationship needs to change. I need to change. I need to be more physical. I need to perhaps change what
I'm eating. There's all of these whispering voices, this internal wisdom that I believe every person has
that gets drowned out with the noise.
Speaker 2
[00.18.37]
You know, our society is now set up to silence. Silence. And when we allow silence to be there. It's
interesting because silence isn't the absence of something like a vacuum, but it's actually the presence of
everything. And when we open to that, and we draw a little bit of courage to be with the silence, I think
really powerful and profound shifts can happen in people's lives.
Speaker 1
[00.19.13]
It's really interesting as well that pretty much every religion I can think of values silence to some degree.
Speaker 2
[00.19.22]
Mhm. Yes. And I've
Speaker 1
[00.19.23]
heard, I've heard it said that. Prayer is like speaking to God. Meditation is listening to God. You need
them both.
Speaker 2
[00.19.33]
Yes. Yes. And. And for those who are not religiously affiliated. Think of mindfulness as a secular
scientific practice. Yeah. You know, because it really does reach through, as you mentioned, Cody. It
really is present in all religions in the world. But millions of people practice mindfulness around theworld in all different types of religious affiliations and non affiliations agnostics, atheists. It really doesn't
matter. It's a human thing. In fact, I'd even go as far to say as it's a sentient being thing. Even animals,
you know, when you think about it, animals live for the most part in silence.
Speaker 1
[00.20.20]
It's funny that you said that I was just thinking about animals. Mhm. And as a holistic nutritionist. So I'm
a nutritionist and a psychotherapist. I often think about how animals are so much healthier than humans.
And I'm often looking at the reasons why that might be. And if you think about it in terms of
mindfulness. Animals spend most of their lives in silence, even a yappy dog. When they're not yapping,
they're in silence. Why are they healthier? Usually wild animals are healthier than domesticated animals,
but they're going outside. They're getting fresh air, they're getting sunshine, and they're getting that
silence that I think it. It's a natural thing to get that. Yes, but we we tend to drown that out with unnatural
things like the the music, the TV, everything else. Absolutely. And and not to say that one can't get
enjoyment out of sounds like music, or even watching a television show that that interests you or. Right.
Listening to a podcast. Right. These things are all are wonderful. This is what's so wonderful and juicy
about life is that we've got all of these great choices. However, when we overdo it and we neglect silence
and we don't allow for silent moments in our lives, I honestly think that we're missing out on so, so much.
Speaker 2
[00.21.59]
It is. In many ways, the great healer is silence. Yes, and silence doesn't mean having to necessarily be in
a complete vacuum, you know? In fact, before I sat down today to speak with you, Cody, I sat out in my
backyard. It's a beautiful day here today. The sun is shining. I have a little backyard. It's lovely and green.
There's trees. And I just sat there and listened. And the birds are twittering. And I can, you know, I can
hear there's a squirrel that lives in the tree in behind in our neighbor's tree. And I can hear it rustling
around in the tree. And it was just such a wonderful moment. I had no desire to listen to anything other
than the sounds of nature. I had no desire to read a book or look in my iPhone or do whatever. You know,
we as human beings normally do. I just sat there and listened to quote unquote, the Silence, but it wasn't
100% silent, but it was very restorative and very healing. It felt great. And that's what that's what I'm
talking about, is taking those moments of enjoying what? What the world offers to us in terms of non-
human generated sound.
Speaker 1
[00.23.17]
We aren't designed to worry about the future or dwell on the past.
Speaker 2
[00.23.23]
And yet so many of us find ourselves doing that. And quite often I find that we are bouncing back and
forth between the future and the past. And what we're skipping right over the present in the process.
Speaker 1
[00.23.37]
And so I teach people instead of bouncing back and forth, it's okay to think about the future. It's okay to
think about the past, but bring yourself to the present and try to be there most of the time.
Speaker 2
[00.23.48]Mhm. And that is a challenge. It's a real challenge, especially for people starting out with mindfulness
practices, because when they sit still or lay down or however they're silent walking mindfully walking,
they suddenly become aware of the magnitude of thoughts that they have. And as I call it, the top ten
favorites because usually we are thinking about. The same thing over and over and over again. The same.
Whatever it is that's that's occupying our future thoughts or our rumination about something in the past,
there's maybe ten things, maybe five things, and they will play over and over again in long or short
snippets. But until we become mindful, we're not aware of those patterns. And until we become mindful,
there's really not much we can actually do to resolve those things that are pulling us forward into the
future or dragging us back into the past. And that is a wonderful exercise to allow us to, um, move
forward in our lives. Really?
Speaker 1
[00.25.02]
I heard once that if somebody has a developmental disorder, mindfulness essentially can cure it as long as
they're practicing it consistently and regularly.
Speaker 2
[00.25.14]
Mhm. Mhm. And so I mean essentially you're training the brain to, to do what it was meant to do in the
first place. Yeah. The more you practice it the more you're activating that neuroplasticity changing neural
pathways and allowing the brain. To do to follow its natural processes. And I like to think about children.
I think about how mindful they are naturally until they're socialized out of it. Mhm.
Speaker 1
[00.25.44]
Mhm. It does seem like it's a social phenomenon where I mean trauma might be part of it too. But
Speaker 2
[00.25.53]
if you think about it, young children before they go to school, they're in the moment they're playing. If
they get hurt quick typically they bounce back from it pretty quickly. Mhm. But then as soon as they go
to school and they're taught that they need to sit still,
Speaker 1
[00.26.10]
focus on their assignments, worry about that book report that they have to do this Friday.
Speaker 2
[00.26.15]
Mhm. They start worrying more about the future. They start worrying more about their performance.
Speaker 1
[00.26.22]
Mhm. And if they make a mistake they start worrying about the past. Mhm. And they grow up and they
continue in that pattern until they're their mindfulness coach or their therapist or someone else says hey
be mindful.Speaker 2
[00.26.38]
Mhm. Yeah it's true. You know it's true. And, and it's particularly challenging for parents nowadays with
the um pressure of uh, social media, the internet, Um, all of the external things that, you know, 15 years
ago were, were like a non-issue. And now it's a big thing, right? This distraction, these distractions, and
not all of them. Good. Now, don't get me wrong. The internet is fabulous. Look, you and I are sitting here
today. You're in the United States. I'm in Canada. We're talking like, wow. That's amazing. That's
fabulous. Mhm. But there are negative things that happen, as we all know, and we don't necessarily even
need to name them. But these extra pressures on young children growing up makes it even more
challenging and therefore even more important to, to, uh, to give children, uh, the understanding that the
way that they behave when they are young to, to a great degree, is the way to be, as you said, to be in the
moment. To offer children opportunities to just play, to just play, to be outside, to to climb a tree, to go
for a hike, you know, or, uh, to learn to play an instrument and to just play with it, like, have fun or do
some crafts of some sort, or have really interesting creative conversations with them, help them develop
their creativity. And that is one of the benefits of mindfulness.
Speaker 1
[00.30.25]
If you're feeling like you would like to get started on a low carb or keto or carnivore, or just a general
whole food diet, you might be interested in my small group nutrition program. To learn more, go to
Beaver Creek wellness.com. You can also register there. So again, go to Beaver Creek to learn more.
Interestingly, I think we can reduce physical pain with mindfulness as well. Have you read the book The
Celestine Prophecy?
Speaker 2
[00.30.57]
Yes. Oh gosh. Yes. Years ago. Yes.
Speaker 1
[00.31.00]
Oh, that's a good book. Um, yeah. Maybe it was the 10th Insight, which is the second book. Um, but they
talk about how I don't I'm not sure if they actually use the word mindfulness, but they're the author is
basically teaching it through a parable. And he describes, if you're just maybe, maybe you stub your toe
to go with that example that you just shared. You're feeling that throbbing pain. And if you can sit with
that, mindfully, focus on it with a spirit of acceptance, that acceptance can be very, very healing. Uh, and
maybe the pain doesn't go away completely. Maybe it doesn't necessarily physically heal you, but in most
cases, I think that pain will reduce because 90% of physical pain is actually in the mind.
Speaker 2
[00.31.52]
Mhm. Mhm. Yes. And to be aware of the fact that the pain is not necessarily a constant but it changes. It
can change in intensity. It can change in length. You know a stubbed toe is a perfect example when you
stub your toe. Oh man it really hurts for the first however long minute or so. And then one would notice a
decrease. And then, uh, there might be some throbbing pain that comes and goes and comes and goes,
and eventually the pain will go away until you put your shoe on. And then, oh, oh, there's the pain again.
So it's that recognizing that it's not necessarily a constant, that like life, things change in intensity from
highs to lows and the in-betweens. It's important to pay attention when we have physical pain or other
physical symptoms. That's our body telling us something is wrong. And so having that mindfulness, that
that awareness of our body can really benefit us in many ways, because then we then we'll pay attentionand we'll say, hey, my body's telling me something. What is it telling me? And you can kind of you can
further assess from there. But we we live in a society that is just rampant with chaos, with noise, just a lot
of ignoring of the symptoms.
Speaker 1
[00.33.24]
And so if we can just pay attention, we can do so much better.
Speaker 2
[00.33.30]
We can absolutely do so much
Speaker 1
[00.33.32]
better. Yeah. I like to say slow down on purpose. Mhm. And so maybe it's not that you're, you're quitting
your job or you're dropping to part time hours. Mhm. But when you are doing your job or maybe when
you're at home not working at your job. Slow down. Don't be in such a rush. Because by slowing down,
you are forced to pay attention. But it's a good thing.
Speaker 2
[00.34.00]
Yeah. And it's great that you brought that up, because I recently just uploaded to my website a free e-
book that anyone can download, and it's called The Power of the pause. And it's exactly that theme that
we're talking about is taking these pauses, and they can last from five seconds to, you know what? I, what
I talk about in the in the book is also a reset pause. That can be something that can be done every six
months or once a year, where you really take the time to be reflect reflective and to to understand your
experiences that got you to where you are right now and where you potentially want to go. But building
these little mini pauses into our day can be wonderfully restorative and very, very helpful. It breaks the
cycle as as you said, of that rushing. You know, rushing. My sister once told me a story. She because she
was she was very aware that she was rushing. This is someone who she's a single mom. She had three
kids and she felt like she was constantly going, going, going, going. And one day she was in her kitchen
and she was about to load the dishwasher. And she always felt that she had to do it really, really quickly
because she had to move on to something else. So she said, okay, you know, I'm just going to time
myself and see how much time it actually takes me to load this dishwasher when I do it at a regular pace.
And she said, I timed myself. It was two minutes, she said, two minutes out of my entire day. But in her
mind it was like, oh my God, this is taking me so much time. I have to do it faster, faster, faster. So when
we actually slow down and notice, then we suddenly realize that there's a lot more time than what we
actually are recognizing. We actually have more time. Mhm. We have this illusion that we don't have
time because we get distracted. Yes. And I mean, for me, it's it's thinking about the future. And I think
that's the case for many, many of us is that we're distracted by. Oh, I need to make sure I remember to do
this, send that email, uh, record that podcast episode
Speaker 1
[00.36.13]
or dwelling on the past for a lot of people, too. I wish I, I wish I hadn't said that right. I wish I had done
this. Um, but if we can cut out those distractions, life is going to be so much better.
Speaker 2
[00.36.27]Right? Or at least recognize them and recognize our pattern of repetitive thinking about the future or
ruminating about the past. You know, catastrophizing and rumination. Those are two strong, strong poles
in people's lives. And as you said, sometimes people tend to be more. I'm I'm more of a future thinker.
When I notice my my thought patterns, I'm thinking about what's going to be happening in the future and,
and potentially worrying about it. But the future hasn't happened yet. And oftentimes when I'm reflective
about what actually happened, about the thing that I might have been worrying about often, it turned out
much better than what I thought it was. So I have learned to recognize that as a pattern in myself, and
when I catch myself doing it, I stop. I take a breath, I pause, I reset, and I start again, and I just essentially
just let it go. I let it go as best I can, and the next time I notice I'm caught up in that thinking again, I will
stop. I'll pause, take a breath and reset. I guess we haven't talked about this yet, but intentionally
practicing mindfulness is a very important component of the practice. So, for example, I mean, you could
easily become distracted if you're not being intentional about what you're doing. So maybe you you have
some time in between meetings. So you pick up your smartphone and you start scrolling through TikTok
or Instagram.
Speaker 1
[00.38.10]
The next thing you know, 20 minutes has passed. Mhm. Think about all that time you wasted you. You
could have loaded your dishwasher ten times in that 20 minutes.
Speaker 2
[00.38.21]
Yeah. Yes. Exactly. But it's hard. You know it's hard. These are habitual things that have creeped into
people's lives in modern times. You know, especially iPhones and especially, you know, androids. They
are. And let's not fool ourselves. They're designed that way. They're designed with all their bells and
whistles and their sounds, and there's noises, you know, being, oh, there's a oh, there's a text. Oh, who's
on it? Oh ding ding. There's some. Oh, there's something else. They're designed that way on purpose to
hold your attention and to deliver to you whatever it is. They're highly addictive. And so it's interesting
because, um, I just recently like recently, since about mid-December, I set the intention to say when I get
up in the morning, I am not going to pick up my iPhone, and I am not going to look at it until I have done
all the things that I want to do in the morning. Otherwise get up, get up, up, out of bed, you know, have a
shower, get dressed, do all of that stuff. You know, right in my, my, I have a gratitude journal that I write
in, write in my gratitude journal, get, you know, go downstairs, have my coffee. And that that moment in
time, that's when I will look at my phone and I set that intention. And I'm thankfully I'm still doing it.
And I'll tell you, it feels really good. But you have to be intentional with your, uh, with those types of
goals that you set for yourself. And also like in mindfulness, when you slip up, if it happens to not be
down on yourself just to recognize it and say, okay, well, today I picked up my iPhone as soon as I got
up. Well, tomorrow's another day. Tomorrow I will set the the goal post again and say, okay, here we go.
Yeah. Great strategy. I know I'm I am one to check my phone first thing in the morning. It's email. I don't
use social media very much, but I will check my email. Yeah. And I will waste a lot of time in the
morning doing that. But if I were to be more intentional and do what you just described, I think my
morning would go a lot better. I'd be more productive. I wouldn't be wasting so much time. And yeah,
eventually I'd get to checking my email, but I wouldn't be so distracted doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.40.49]
What other strategies do you have to encourage people to get away from their their addictive
smartphones or other other habits that might be causing
Speaker 2
[00.40.59]action? Mhm. Well, I think first of all is, is to set that intent first to recognize what it is because
everybody's different. I mean yes, most of us have iPhones. So I would I would venture to guess that
most people probably are on their iPhones more than they they wish. One of the great things to do is
there's a way to track on your iPhone, to let it let you know how long you used it this, the week previous,
and when you set that, I guarantee you will be shocked by how much you actually use your iPhone. Most
people are not aware. As you said, you're scrolling, you know, for 20 minutes or whatever. You have no
idea. So first, to become aware of it, then to understand is that how you really want to be spending your
time? If it is, and if that's what you want to do, great. That's that's great. Then you you've achieved your
goal. But if you recognize that, maybe you know, when it's telling me I use my iPhone five hours a day,
right? Then you think, really? Should I be on my iPhone five hours a day? Is there any way I could shave
an hour off of that and use that hour to do something else, whatever it might be, you know, I don't know.
It could be anything. It could be going for a walk. It could be, uh, having a talk on the phone with a
friend. Or maybe there's a really interesting movie that you want to watch with your significant other and
you say, hey, this is the time. Let's do it. Let's watch it play with your kids or whatever. That is a
multitude of things you could do in an hour instead of being stuck on your phone. So it begins with
recognition and then intention to change, and then just doing your very best to stay with that intention. I
heard recently that the average American now spends seven hours a day on screens and seven minutes
outside. Yeah,
Speaker 1
[00.42.57]
that is appalling. I mean, sometimes that's me. Mhm. But you have to have that awareness. You have to
notice that it's a problem before you can change it. And sometimes it happens accidentally but change it
intentionally because it's going to be that much more powerful.
Speaker 2
[00.43.15]
Yeah. Yeah. You know it's so interesting because there's a lot of information out there on how to live a
healthy, productive, happy, balanced life. And we all know it and we all hear it. And yet so many of us
don't actually follow through. But I really, honestly believe that if you give yourself an opportunity to try
it, that you will be pleasantly surprised and it might just stick. It might just stick. It might. You might go,
you know, going for that walk. Yesterday was so great. I'm going to maybe do that once a week and set
for yourself a achievable goal. You know, if you say, well, I'm going to do that every single day. Chances
are you may not achieve it, but set yourself something that you really want to see and say, you know, I
could do that. I could do that. Yeah, I could do it once a week. I'll set the time after work on a Monday.
I'm going to go for a walk. Great. And when we experience these things and all of a sudden we realize.
Why didn't I do this before? This is so great. Yeah. So
Speaker 1
[00.44.34]
I was thinking about creativity. And a lot of people seem, especially with AI. We tend to lack the ability
to create anymore. Do you think mindfulness helps with that?
Speaker 2
[00.44.47]
For sure. In fact, uh, my graduate studies, um, um, paper that I did was all about, uh, creativity and how
mindfulness practices can support creativity and innovation. And sometimes when people think about
creativity, they think, oh, yeah, well, you know, that means painting or dancing or acting or singing or
playing a musical instrument. And I say, yes, that's true, but we all need to be creative in our everyday
lives. We need to problem solve constantly, either at work or at home or in our relationships. We are
called upon to. To do things in a different way every single day. An example being if you have to go. If
you have to go somewhere, you've got to figure out how to get there. Right? How do I get there? Oryou're going to have a conversation with somebody new? What? How am I going to have that
conversation? What are we going to talk about? And so yes, mindfulness can help with that in particular.
I focused in that study on one type of mindful meditation which is called open awareness meditation.
And it's, you know, simply put, open awareness meditation is intentional mind wandering. It's to say, I'm
going to intentionally allow my mind to wander. Now, mind wandering has often been Pooh poohed in
the realms of mindfulness as being something negative. People who mind wander tend to be more
depressed. You know, they tend to be disconnected from life and so on. And that might be. But what I'm
saying is, when you intentionally mind wander, when you say on purpose, I am going to allow my my
thoughts to come and go as they wish. Magical things can happen. Really wonderful.
Speaker 1
[00.46.44]
To where your mind is wandering to. Yes, yes. And so your creativity just goes.
Speaker 2
[00.46.50]
Mhm mhm. That's the main difference is you're, you're either paying attention or you're not when your
mind is wandering. Right.
Speaker 1
[00.46.57]
And if you're paying attention it can be powerful.
Speaker 2
[00.47.01]
Yeah. Mhm. And so it really comes down to that. You know it's intentional attention. That's mindfulness.
Intentional attention. When we do things with intention on purpose then it creates a shift that isn't there
when we do things unintentionally. Here's something to I was doing some clinical research. I guess it's
been a few years now looking for scholarly articles on ADHD. I wasn't even looking for anything about
mindfulness, even though that's been a passion of mine for a long time. I found an article about ADHD
started reading it. And it talked about how typically ADHD medications are amphetamines. So they're
stimulants. They work for people for a few years on average. And the reason it's only a few years is
because the body builds a tolerance to it.
Speaker 1
[00.48.00]
And then at the end of the article, it started to compare that with mindfulness. And I was pleasantly
surprised. And it explained that ADHD medication might be effective for only a few years because you
build a tolerance, but you never build a tolerance to mindfulness. It is a lifelong practice and it only gets
better as you keep doing it.
Speaker 2
[00.48.23]
That that is true.
Speaker 1
[00.48.25]Mhm. And no no side effects either. I mean you don't need insurance to practice mindfulness. Nope. You
don't end up with uh kidney failure or liver problems or these other things that you might get from
medication. No side effects, lifelong practice. And it only gets better as you keep doing
Speaker 2
[00.48.45]
it. Yeah. And it's true. And it and it because it allows you. To truly recognize what's going on with you
and with those around you and your environment, so you can respond in the most healthy way. You can
be aware of what's going on in your mind and in your body and all around you. It you know, it reminds
me of a quote by Viktor Frankl. It's one of my favorite quotes. And and he said between stimulus and
response, there is a space. And in that space is our power to choose our response. And in our response
lies our growth and our freedom. Um,
Speaker 1
[00.49.37]
and again, going back to the awareness, we have to be aware that that space exists. Yes. And be
intentional with how to use it.
Speaker 2
[00.49.46]
Mhm. Mhm. And that we have the power. I think a lot of people nowadays feel somewhat powerless. It's
like everything else is running around them and and they have no choice. And what I say to people is the
exact opposite is you do have a choice. You always have a choice and you do have power. You have the
power to choose. You have the power to shape your life regardless of your situation. You know Viktor
Frankl. He was a an Auschwitz survivor. You know, this is a man who, who, who was in the worst of
circumstances and was able, through his mental processes and his ability to respond. To the situation that
he was in that helped him survive that. And that's an extreme example. But we can we can take the lesson
from that and integrate it into our lives. I always say there is a choice available to us. And if we
intentionally if we intentionally guide our lives and listen to that inner voice of wisdom that's available to
us in that silence, pause in that space, then we will inevitably, uh, profit from it. We will grow, and, uh,
we will be more balanced and, dare I say, happier individuals in this world.
Speaker 1
[00.51.21]
So for my listeners who aren't practicing mindfulness. Give it a try.
Speaker 2
[00.51.27]
That's right. Give it a try.
Speaker 1
[00.51.29]
Very simple thing to do. Like you were saying Pamela earlier. It can be just starting with the breath. But
do you have any favorite apps or YouTube channels or other resources that you like to point people to?
Speaker 2
[00.51.43]Mhm. Um, there is actually there's a really great app that I have used myself. It's called vital. Um, and in
that app you can actually create your own. Um, it's AI generated. So to understand that that's where it's
coming from. So AI is not the end all be all. But the interesting thing about this particular app is that you
can create meditations based on what you want. And by meditations I say it can be a mindful meditation.
It can be a visualization meditation. It can be a confidence boosting meditation. There's a number of
different types of meditation. You can choose if you want to have it in silence or with sound in the
background. There's different voices, and these voices are real people. In fact, I personally know
someone who's one of the voices, um, and you type in what it is that you want to achieve or focus on in
your meditation. You can choose the length and it creates it for you. And then if you like it, you can save
it. So that is a that's a really helpful tool. Um, and you know. I'm often not one to recommend books per
se, only because there's such a huge array of books on mindfulness and everybody is slightly different.
Some people like the more technical kind of books, and some people like, you know, the ones that are
more filled with, uh, quotes and images and, and might be a kind of a journaling thing, but I say go
explore that at your local bookstore. Most bookstores, um, have a whole section just on on mindfulness.
Um, and if you're interested, of course, on my website, um, which is, uh, your mind and you, uh, I have
recordings of meditations, very simple ones. Ten minute breathing meditation, an open awareness
meditation. Um. They're free. You can listen to them there and, uh, or watch them, uh, not watch them,
but listen to them on YouTube. Um, and of course, I mentioned it earlier as well, my free e-book, which
is The Power of the pause, and that has some really good exercises in it. Very simple, very easy to
follow, very easy to implement to maybe kickstart. Uh, your, your delving into mindfulness. And
included in that book is, uh, what I call the seven day pause challenge. So it's a just a seven day, very
simple thing that you can follow that will help you integrate little mindful pauses into your day and gives
you a bit of space to do some journaling if you like, but gives you some suggestions on how you can
build little mindful moments into your day over a span of of seven days. To sort of, as I say, kickstart
your mindful practice. Great.
Speaker 1
[00.54.47]
And since you already shared your website, I have one more question for you, Pamela. Yeah. If you
could change one thing about the way people approach health and wellness, what would it be? It doesn't
necessarily have to be about mindfulness or that's what pops into your mind. That's okay too.
Speaker 2
[00.55.03]
Mhm. One thing. Well gosh there's so many there's so many things. But I think it be it begins with
awareness. When you become aware of what you are allowing into yourself and be it food or drink, what
you're visually seeing, what you're hearing, your relationships, your job. When you become aware of
what you are allowing to influence your life, you then will ultimately recognize those things that are
serving you well and those things that are not serving you well. And that's where you have the
opportunity and the power to make a choice.
Speaker 1
[00.55.48]
Great. Thanks so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2
[00.55.51]
Thank you Cody. I really this has been a great, great conversation. I appreciate you very much. And and
thank you for having me on your podcast.
Speaker 1[00.56.01]
If you want to support this podcast go to Kofi. That's Co. If you enjoyed this episode make sure you
leave a review that really helps me out. And also subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your
podcasts.
Speaker 2
[00.56.19]
Real Food Mental Health is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The information
presented on this podcast is not intended to replace any medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. While I
am a healthcare provider, I am not your provider. Always seek the advice of an appropriate health care
practitioner with any personal questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard
professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you've heard on this podcast.
Reliance on information provided by this podcast is at your own risk.