021: Mental Health and Nourishing Traditions with Sally Fallon Morell
This is a podcast transcript from Real Food Mental Health. It may contain errors.
Speaker 1
[00.00.00]
You're listening to Real Food Mental Health with Cody Cox. Today's episode is a very special episode
for podcast, on which is a worldwide event in which podcasts dedicate an episode to a charity of their
choice. This episode is dedicated to the Western a prize foundation. If you've been listening to my show
for a while, you've probably heard me mention the foundation here and there. But today's guest is none
other than a co-founder and the current president of the Western A Price Foundation, Sally Fallon
Morell. That's right, folks, I put some cheesy sound effects in there because I was so excited to talk to
Sally. So today's episode is about real food and mental health. The overarching theme of my entire show,
Sally, represents an organization that teaches from ancestral wisdom, which essentially means today's
episode is not going to discuss at all about functional, nutrition type things, such as lab work or
supplements or other commercial products. Instead, the episode will be entirely focused on what real
food you can be eating to nourish your brain and support overall mental health. One more quick thing
about Sally is she is the author of Nourishing Traditions, the cookbook that challenges politically correct
nutrition and the diet. That's if you don't already own this book. I highly recommend it. You can get it on
Amazon. I'll put a link in the show notes. Welcome to the Real Food Mental Health podcast, where we
explore the powerful connection between mental and physical health. My name is Cody Cox, a holistic
nutritional psychotherapist, and I'm here to guide you on a journey to true wellness, mind, body, and
spirit. If you're tired of quick fixes and want real solutions that address the root cause, you're in the right
place. Let's get started on your path to lasting wellness. Welcome back to Real Food Mental Health with
Cody Cox. Today I have a very special guest, Sally Fallon. Meryl. Welcome, Sally.
Speaker 2
[00.02.12]
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1
[00.02.14]
So you're the president of the Western Enterprise Foundation. And correct me if I'm wrong, you're a co-
founder of the foundation too, right?
Speaker 2
[00.02.23]
Right. I'm one of the first. Well, founder means first, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So there were four of us.
Uh, uh, my husband, Jeffrey Morell, um, Tom Cowan and Mary Hennig, myself.
Speaker 1
[00.02.41]
I've been curious. How did you originally find Doctor Price's work?
Speaker 2
[00.02.46]
I found his book in something called the Yes Bookstore on Wisconsin Avenue in Washington, DC. And,
um, that was in 1974.
Speaker 1[00.02.59]
And what led you to starting the foundation?
Speaker 2
[00.03.02]
Well, I'd written the book, and I just felt that we needed something to keep this out in the public eye. My
concern was that Weston Price had won this one, written this wonderful book, and nobody had heard of
him and the people who had heard of him. It was like a little private club, you know, and I just felt so
strongly that this information needed to get out to the wider world and keep being out there. You know, a
book fades, but, um, uh. An organization publishing a journal and doing activism and so forth that stays
in people's minds.
Speaker 1
[00.03.41]
It does. Yeah. And I just I love all the work that the foundation is doing. So, uh, before we started the
recording, I mentioned that I'm part of my local chapter, and I would be a chapter leader if there wasn't
already one where I live. But I, I feel like I'm involved as I can be, and I just keep hoping more and more
people can be drawn to Doctor Price's work, because I think what he discovered is profound for the
nutrition field, for for health, for medicine, but particularly for the purposes of our recording today, we
wanted to talk specifically about mental health.
Speaker 2
[00.04.23]
Well, especially today, since all of the conventional nutritional advice goes squarely against what he
found, what he found that traditional cultures were eating, and they not only had excellent physical
health, but excellent mental health. They were cheerful and they were smart. They had excellent
memories, um, and a very, uh. Uh, peaceful societies. Now, that's not the right word because it did go to
war with each other. But, um, within the society, you know, things just kind of worked. It was not a lot of
mental illness or anything like that.
Speaker 1
[00.05.09]
Now, why is that? Why were they better off? And I assume we have we still have some cultures today
that are pretty healthy physically and mentally. And.
Speaker 2
[00.05.21]
Well, it's it's hard to find cultures that haven't been influenced by the modern world and modern foods.
Speaker 1
[00.05.31]
One quick interjection I thought I would put this in here, because I know some listeners might be
wondering, we didn't actually mention the title of the book that Sally found in the 1970s, written by
Weston Price. It's called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. Now, thankfully, this book is old enough
that it's out of copyright, and you can go to archive.org and you can find a digital copy of it for free. Or
of course, you can still buy it too. So nutrition and physical degeneration by Weston a price.
Speaker 2[00.06.03]
It's very hard to find cultures that aren't eating modern foods, and some of the ones you'd think would be
traditional are the worst, like South America or India. I mean, the food companies have just gone in there
and almost taken over. So, um, where you expect to find this, you don't. But just just to summarize,
because maybe some of your listeners haven't heard of Western fries. These diets were very high in
vitamins and minerals and very high in minerals, four times higher than the American diet of his day. But
they were especially high in fat soluble vitamins vitamins A, D, and K ten times higher than the
American diet of his day. And, um, so where do you get these foods, these vitamins? You get them in all
the foods we're being told not to eat butter, egg yolks, uh, the fat on the chicken, which we're told to cut
off and throw away, uh, meat, fats, uh, organ meats like liver. And it really is important to eat liver, uh,
however you can. I know it's hard for some people, but, uh, you know, once a week. Liver and shellfish
is another wonderful source of these fat soluble vitamins. So, um, you know, here where I live in
southern Maryland, if you're eating third sort of eating, uh, the local diet, that would be lots of oysters,
crab. And people here eat scrapple, which is, uh, made with the scraps of butchering the pig. I mean, you
can buy it in any store. Mm. The old timers all eat it and it's got liver in it. So they're having this for
breakfast every morning. And the today it's young people. They don't want to have anything to do with
liver.
Speaker 1
[00.07.52]
So I like to use the, uh, it's, it's a product called pluck. It's a
Speaker 2
[00.07.58]
yeah I know it's a,
Speaker 1
[00.07.59]
it's like a powder, like a seasoning that they make from, uh, grass fed organs. So, so I like using that
because I can sprinkle it on anything. And and of course, eating, eating pure liver is going to be the best.
Yeah, but, uh, you don't often see it in grocery stores.
Speaker 2
[00.08.20]
What do you do? It's usually in the frozen section. Um, but, uh, you can get chicken livers usually
everywhere. And. But what we really like for people to do is buy directly from a farm. We say spend half
your food budget and direct purchases from farmers who are raising doing pastured raw milk, eggs and
meats. And, uh, chicken, for example. And, um, they would have, you know, the best quality chicken
livers or, or whatever you're looking for. Beef liver. Lamb liver. Mhm.
Speaker 1
[00.09.00]
So in your opinion, what at least nutritionally speaking, what is one of the most important things to
contribute to a person's mental health. Mental well-being.
Speaker 2
[00.09.11]
It is absolutely animal fats. And I'll tell you there's one basic reason. Well there's many reasons. Um, but
animal fats are our only source of something called arachidonic acid. And as you know, we have anendocannabinoid system in our bodies that makes basically marijuana in our bodies. And we have
receptors for these substances, and we also clear them very easily when they're endogenous, when they're
natural, your body's making them. And these are our natural feel good chemicals I like to say a well
nourished brain. Uh, the person always feels high. You feel good, you feel happy, you're motivated but
you're relaxed. Mhm. And that comes from these natural endocannabinoids. And the we make them out
of arachidonic acid. And the only place to get arachidonic acid is animal fats. And what we have today is
a culture that thinks animal fats are bad. It doesn't eat butter. It doesn't avoid eggs. And they're miserable.
They feel terrible, naturally terrible because they're not making the natural endocannabinoids. And so
then they go out and look for something that's going to make them feel better. And the first thing they
find is sugar. And sugar raises dopamine levels. It gives you a kind of fake high temporary. And then if
the sugar doesn't work or the sugar doesn't agree with them, then they go to other things, usually
marijuana or opioids or something like that. But we have a culture that feels rotten. They're not happy.
They're not motivated. Um. And all of this, I'm convinced, is because people are avoiding animal fats.
And there's other things in animal fats. One is vitamin A, we need vitamin A to make all our adrenal
hormones that help us feel good and cholesterol. I mean, we can make cholesterol, but we probably need
more than we can make, and we make these hormones out of cholesterol with the help of vitamin A. Uh,
thyroid hormones also contribute to mental health, as you know, and we can't make thyroid hormones
without vitamin A. And vitamin A is in animal fats the only place you can get it. And don't think you can
get vitamin A from oranges or melon that those are carrot carotenoids. And they can be converted into
vitamin A, but humans don't do that very well. We should leave that to the animals. But absolutely. Um,
the number one reason we're seeing so many mental health issues is because of the lack of animal fats in
the diet.
Speaker 1
[00.12.13]
I totally agree with that. I was vegetarian many years ago. I ate a
Speaker 2
[00.12.19]
lot of. It's the dust, right?
Speaker 1
[00.12.21]
Yeah. I mean, I ate a lot of grains. A lot of vegetable oils. Or what we now call seed oils. Um, very rarely
did I eat butter. I did have dairy, so that was my animal fat. But it was very, very little. And then fast
forward a few years, I did some more research on nutrition, and I started eating a lot of grass fed butter
that carry gold brand particularly. Yeah, and I couldn't get enough of it. And I can't tell you how much
better I felt just from eating the butter. Now, at that point, I had stopped being a vegetarian and I had
started eating some grass fed beef as well. So I was starting to incorporate more animal foods into my
diet. My energy was better, my mood was better, my sleep was better, and none of us is perfect. So I still
feel like I have a ways to go. But I am so much better than I was way back then when I was doing that
vegetarian diet.
Speaker 2
[00.13.22]
And of course, the beef is our best source of zinc. And zinc is essential for mental health for many, many
processes that take place in the brain. It protects the brain cells. I mean, it's just essential. In fact, I knew
a guy who had a, um, like a familial zinc deficiency and he had to eat beef at every meal or he would go
crazy. He didn't go crazy because he knew the solution, but he had to have his beef. And that's one of the
good things about the American diet. Even people who are still eating junk food or eating beef. And so
we do get the zinc that we need,Speaker 1
[00.14.06]
despite the fact that they say red meat is bad for us.
Speaker 2
[00.14.10]
Yeah. Anything that's good for us, they tell us, is bad for us. So red meat, raw milk, uh, butter, eggs. If
it's good for you, they're going to tell you it's bad for you. I mean, how else are they going to get their
patients and their addicts? Unless you're starving your brain and you starve your brain by listening to
what they say.
Speaker 1
[00.14.31]
And I can't help but think to Sally when they say that red meat is bad for us. They point to all of this
research and say, this is why. This is why, this is why. But I can't help but think when they have these
research articles, they're really just studying the lowest quality meat they can find the cheapest.
Speaker 2
[00.14.50]
Well, but also there's a lot of contradictory studies. Yeah, there are studies that show that people, even in
the cheapest meter, are healthier. It certainly doesn't make any difference as far as heart disease is
concerned.
Speaker 1
[00.15.02]
So you would recommend even even if somebody can't get a pasture raised quarter beef and stick that in
their freezer that they still go to the grocery store, buy your
Speaker 2
[00.15.13]
don't let better be the enemy of good, right? Yeah. Uh, do the best you can. Uh, the best quality you can.
Um, but just like this egg shortage we've had. And of course, this means that more children are going to
be eating breakfast cereal, which is really bad for you, but, um, uh, you know, people are not going to
spend the $12 a a dozen for pastured eggs. Well, that's okay. You still should eat eggs. Yes. Just do the
best you can.
Speaker 1
[00.15.46]
Yeah. And that's what I like to tell people to even. I bought some some of the cheap eggs last week
because. Because I have chickens. Yeah. And I feed them a really good diet, at least the best that I can.
And sometimes I still have to buy some. Yeah. And with the current prices, it's like, well, I don't want to
I don't want to spend $15 a dozen on the pasture raised eggs. So I'll just.
Speaker 2
[00.16.11]For a mere $6. Yeah. Now those prices will come down. I mean, it was very deliberate. And it wasn't just
because of the massacre of the chickens. Apparently, one company was price fixing and put them up the
the the prices up, even though there wasn't a
Speaker 1
[00.16.32]
shortage. So you mentioned thyroid hormones and I found that interesting. Um, well, that you brought it
up because it's definitely relevant in a nutritional context. But among therapists, I think it's well known
that if somebody has an underactive thyroid that can cause depression. Yeah, but that's all we're taught.
We're just taught to say, go to your doctor, have your thyroid checked, and then what does the doctor do?
They say, oh, well, you need this prescription. Yeah.
Speaker 2
[00.17.04]
Well, and the tests are not always accurate. You could actually get tested or completely normal and still
need, um, thyroid support, but, um, I, I what I say about thyroid is first and foremost, get on cod liver oil
and get some vitamin A so your thyroid can work. And that vitamin A is also needed for the iodine to
actually attach to the hormone molecule to make that work or to cause its release. I mean, that vitamin A
is just essential for this whole complex. Of thyroid hormone production.
Speaker 1
[00.17.43]
Now, for the sake of clarity, for my listeners, what's the difference between a fish oil and a cod liver oil?
Speaker 2
[00.17.51]
Okay. Well, the fish oils are garbage. They've been heated many times. Very hot. They're just made from
the leftovers of the fish. Like the skin and stuff. They don't have the vitamin A and vitamin D in it. Uh,
and most cod liver oil is garbage, too, because it's been heated. So hot. So we only have four brands that
we recommend. These are unheated cod liver oils. And there are listed on our website and where you can
get them. Uh, but this is what we recommend. You don't need much. Um, a couple of capsules or maybe
four capsules a day or a teaspoon at the most. And because it's balanced with vitamin D, uh, these two
work in synergy. And, um, you know, You know, in this recent measles outbreak, they were talking
about 200,000 units of diamond A, which is truly a toxic dose of anything, any vitamin. And all you need
is a teaspoon of cod liver oil to to for vitamin A to work its magic.
Speaker 1
[00.18.54]
And would you say that's the same for adults and children? Or would you recommend less for children.
Speaker 2
[00.18.59]
Um, yeah.
Uh, well if they've got the measles I'd recommend the teaspoon. But they can do with a half a teaspoon.
Speaker 1
[00.19.07]Yeah. Because the Westin a Price Foundation, the way I understand it is you view it more as a food
rather than a
Speaker 2
[00.19.14]
supplement. Yeah. Cod liver oil is a food. Just like the pluck is a food. It's made from an organ, from
Speaker 1
[00.19.20]
organ meat. Now, what about anxiety particularly? Where does that come from if if you were to
Speaker 2
[00.19.26]
well, you mentioned thyroid, low thyroid function. Um, lack of arachidonic acid to make
endocannabinoids can make you very anxious. Uh, low blood sugar. And this is something that's so often
ignored. One of the things that the animal fats do for you is they keep your blood sugar stable. You can
go longer between meals without the blood sugar dropping. And then you when the blood sugar drops,
you feel anxious. Low blood sugar is just bad. There are a lot of bad things happen, including more
accidents. Um, more kind of losing it. Uh, more anxiety, more depression when your blood sugar is low.
And the first thing you do for a person when they, you know, they're in a funk and they're feeling
depressed, even suicidal, is you make them a breakfast of bacon and eggs and toast with lots and lots of
butter on it, and that will perk them up and make them feel normal again. And that's the way we should
be eating all the time.
Speaker 1
[00.20.29]
What causes a person's blood sugar to be low?
Speaker 2
[00.20.33]
Well, uh, so the blood sugar is regulated by the pancreas and the adrenal glands. And when you eat sugar.
You get a big spike that sends your blood sugar up, and then the adrenal hormones and the pancreas work
to bring that blood sugar down. But sometimes it can overshoot and make your blood sugar too low. That
I suffered from hypoglycemia all my life. So I know what I need to do to make sure my blood sugar
doesn't drop too, too low. But it's, uh. And then if you eat fats with your meal, that will prevent that from
happening. It prevents that blood sugar rollercoaster.
Speaker 1
[00.21.14]
Yeah. So fiber, fats and proteins. That's what I was taught. If you're eating those with your your
carbohydrates, it helps kind of balance things out.
Speaker 2
[00.21.25]
Fiber is not for everybody. Some people can digest fiber, but not not everybody.
Speaker 1[00.21.31]
Yeah. And I'm hearing a lot of research. And maybe it's just the social circles that I'm in. But there's a lot
of research out there now that shows that carbohydrates are really non-essential in our diets, where some
people are saying, oh,
Speaker 2
[00.21.47]
I wouldn't say that. No, you need carbs. Your thyroid cannot function without carbs. And next thing you
need a lot, but you need some. So
Speaker 1
[00.21.57]
how much would you say?
Speaker 2
[00.21.59]
Well, Chris, Master John says 50g a day. So that's a small potato or a slice of bread. Um, I probably eat
100g a day. Um, so 100g of carbs you want, um, 10 to 20% of your calories is protein, and then the rest
would be
Speaker 1
[00.22.18]
for sure.
fats. So still essentially a low carb diet. It sounds like yeah, it's definitely compared to the American diet
Speaker 2
[00.22.26]
Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.22.29]
Um, and would you say that I know you kind of mentioned depression. Uh, do they kind of depression
and anxiety? Do they kind of stem from the same physiological nutritional issues or or do they have
some differences? Well,
Speaker 2
[00.22.44]
everybody's different, of course, one person will get depressed when their blood sugar goes too low. One
person will get anxious. Um, definitely. Your calm goes away when your blood sugars low, your hands
tend to shake. Um, you perspire more. It's kind of like a toxic shock when your blood pressure goes too
low. That blood pressure. Excuse me? Blood sugar
Speaker 1
[00.23.11]
collection. Yeah. And for, like you were saying, it manifests in different ways for different people. Uh, it
could manifest as chronic fatigue, irritability.Speaker 2
[00.23.23]
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1
[00.23.24]
Difficulty concentrating. And actually,
Speaker 2
[00.23.28]
because you're always eating to keep your blood sugar up, you're always hungry. Yeah. Never satiated.
Yes. And I often think about, like, Thanksgiving dinner. We tend to overeat, but it ends up being a high
carb meal for most people. And so you feel full but not satiated. And so there is a difference. You want to
feel satiated. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.23.52]
Rather than the full. Well,
Speaker 2
[00.23.54]
that's what the fats do for you.
Speaker 1
[00.23.56]
What's one thing that you think people could start today if they're say they're eating a standard American
diet, they they're trying to eat healthy, or at least according to what they think is healthy. And maybe this
traditional wisdom, traditional diets are totally new to them. What would be the first thing you would
Speaker 2
[00.24.13]
recommend? The first thing I would say is eat butter. Get rid of all the spreads, all the margarines, all the
seed oils. And eat butter. And now there are people who have a kind of almost a no fat diet, because they
know the seed oils in the margins and spreads are bad, and maybe they're just using olive oil. Well, olive
oil is okay in small amounts, but it's not going to satisfy the nutritional requirements that you have. So I
would just learn to forgive yourself for eating better. You don't need to feel guilty. I mean, I had a lot of
people tell me they had to get over their sense of guilt for eating butter, and that sense of guilt has been
carefully inculcated into you so that you would eat the substitutes. But get over your sense of guilt.
You're worthy. You deserve it. Butter is the fat in nature for the growth and development of all
mammals. There can't be anything wrong with it. It's got things in it that you can't get anywhere else. Uh,
it's got butyric acid. That's the only source of butyric acid, which is, by the way, very important for
thyroid function. Um, so that would be my first thing. Just put butter on everything. And, you know, if
you're eating a stick of butter today, that's okay. It should be grass fed butter. And there's several brands
now available. And so that's what I'd recommend first. Absolutely first. And then then the second thing is
try to only eat at meal times. So you know, Americans snack all day long and go to the vending machine.
They get these, uh, drinks and beverages which are loaded with sugar and MSG and all kinds of horrible
things. So try to just eat three meals a day and nothing in between meals,Speaker 1
[00.26.01]
and that should be easier as you're following a lower carb diet
Speaker 2
[00.26.05]
and a higher fat diet.
Speaker 1
[00.26.06]
Yeah. So your your blood sugar stays pretty even between meals.
Speaker 2
[00.26.11]
And then I would say, uh, red labels. Uh, there should only be one thing on that label. Butter potato meat.
Rice. Um beef eggs. And you put those things together however you want, but start with things that don't
have ingredients in them, just the one thing.
Speaker 1
[00.26.37]
You know, it's fascinating how many other ingredients are in these foods that generally would be healthy.
So for example, sour cream, it's full of additives. And for a while I just didn't eat sour cream because I
was like, I can't find a good brand that has minimal ingredient,
Speaker 2
[00.26.55]
is a wonderful makes your food taste so
Speaker 1
[00.26.57]
good. And just a couple months ago, I figured out how simple it is just to make my own sour cream. So.
So that's what I do now. It's so easy. Yeah it is. The other thing you can get is creme fraiche, which is the
French sour cream, and that has no additives in it. And that's okay.
Speaker 2
[00.27.16]
Forget who makes that. It's just one company that makes it.
Speaker 1
[00.27.19]
So. It seems like the the theme of our our recording today is about healthy fats. Now, I actually wouldn't
mind getting into the controversial things about as far as the seed oils, where did they come from? How
long have we had them? You did mention that that was that's basically the alternative to butter. And so
they've been telling us for a long time, decades that butter is so bad for us so that we will go and buy the
alternatives. So so how long have we had these seed oils or vegetable oils? Yeah. So the seed oils started
to come in in about 1890 with the invention of the stainless steel steel roller press. Uh, before that, youcould only get oils out of certain very oily seeds, like sesame seeds or rapeseed. And they were they were
extracted with a little stone press that went around and press the seeds, and you use them immediately.
Otherwise they'd go rancid. Uh, but to get oil out of corn or soy or cottonseed, you need a stainless steel
press. And I'll come back to that in a moment. So the first seed that was used this way was cotton seed in
the South, because they had a lot of cotton seed and, um, cotton seed, uh, not only goes rancid right away
when you remove the oil, but it actually has a toxin in it called glossy pol. Anyway, so the first use of this
oil was in the south, and it made people very sick. Um, but they kept using it, and then they figured out
how to do this process called partial hydrogenation, which turned that liquid oil into a hard fat. And
Procter and Gamble had the patent on this process. And they use the hard fat to make candles. Okay. Uh,
then you started, you had electricity come in, and, um, they had a lot of this stuff, this garbage left over.
So what'd they do with it? They said, well, we'll just feed this to people. And so that's when, um,
shortening came in Crisco, which means crystalized cottonseed oil. And that came in, um, in 1912. And
they shamelessly pushed this Crisco as a better than butter or, or lard. And they published a cookbook
which said that the women who use Crisco and not lard were more modern. They their houses smelled
better, they were cleaner, they were more scientific. And their children would grow up with better
characters than the children who were giving, given these dirty animal fats. And yes, they might have
what they call butter characters, because they certainly weren't going to be as interested in sex because
you can't make sex hormones without with the ingredients in margarine. Anyway, they very early on got
the idea that we're going to promote this as being healthy. Good for your what what the disease de jour
and the disease de jour in those days was heart disease. Um, we're starting to get very prevalent. And so
they kind of seconded some heart doctors and had them testify for these oils and for the margarines and
how they did that by demonizing their competition and the competition. What was different about the
competition? Well, had cholesterol and all animal fats
Speaker 2
[00.31.04]
have cholesterol. So they said, well, we'll say how terrible cholesterol is. They have they had no evidence
whatsoever that cholesterol was bad. But they just started to say this. And, you know, it's the power of
advertising.
Speaker 1
[00.31.18]
And we are all victims of that, too, unfortunately,
Speaker 2
[00.31.21]
you know, in 1900, Americans ate £19. Let's see. Yeah, £19 of butter per person per year. And heart
disease was non-existent. Or very, you know, very low and um, now we £4 per person per year and heart
disease is 50% of the population. So it can't be better. I mean, we don't know all the reasons for the heart
disease, but we know it's not better because they've been going in the opposite direction. We've
Speaker 1
[00.31.54]
seen something similar happening with autism as we we see instances of autism just exponentially on the
rise in the last few decades where before and some people would say, oh, well, it's because we didn't
have that diagnosis. But but I think it actually is on the
Speaker 2
[00.32.16]
rise. Listen, when I was in grade school and that was back in the 1950s, there was an autism. We didn't
have kids in our class with autism. We had a couple of children who were a little bit strange, but wedidn't have autism. You know, they could learn and talk and look at you and, you know, they weren't
autistic. I know autism, I mean, there may be several causes, but the main one is aluminum. Uh, because
the brains of autistic children are very, very high in aluminum. And where are we getting this aluminum?
There's only one place we're getting this aluminum that's from the vaccinations. So the vaccinated child,
when that child goes in for their two month vaccinations, gets four shots. It's getting 50 times more
aluminum into the bloodstream than it's allowed by law. And intravenous feeding for a day and for an
adult. And this is a two month old baby. It's very obvious what's causing autism in this country. And we
even have a control group. We have the Amish who don't get autism. They don't vaccinate. I mean, it's so
clear and they can say they can play vaccines. No, cause autism is as much as until they're blue in the
face. But it's so obvious. Yeah,
Speaker 1
[00.33.38]
yeah. And I think it goes back to just that the business side of things, the advertising, it's just a company
trying to make their money and push their product. And I've, I've worked in several business settings and
I'm not going to lie, I've been tempted to do unethical things in the name of making more money, even as
a health care provider. Sometimes it's like, oh, I can see, I can I can see why a doctor would do this over
this or, um, diagnosed this way instead of this way, because there's a financial incentive for these
Speaker 2
[00.34.10]
things. Well, it's called, um, it's called incentivized medicine actually. Um, so if you're in a pediatric
practice. And you get a patient who says, I don't want to vaccinate my child. If you go along with that,
you will lose part of your bonus or all of your bonus, and the whole practice will lose all of their bonus.
So there's tremendous peer pressure. And so what do they do? They fire their patients. They say, well,
you can't be in this practice. It just happened to my son. Uh, with their little baby. Um, they go in for the
pediatrician. He said, well, we're not going to vaccinate. And they said, well, you can't be you can't come
Speaker 1
[00.34.47]
here. They're trying to push the vaccinations for homeschool kids now,
Speaker 2
[00.34.51]
too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Uh, there's a, um, Mennonite school, three schools in upstate New York,
and they're going to find them 100, you know, over $100,000 because they didn't make the children get
vaccinated. And that's an absolute religious right to refuse vaccinations. Can you imagine if if we pass
some kind of a law where it was, like, legally required to feed your children Kellogg's cereal or.
Speaker 1
[00.35.18]
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 2
[00.35.20]
We're all like that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1[00.35.22]
kind of the same thing where it's just a big company trying to push their product.
Speaker 2
[00.35.26]
By the way, one thing we didn't talk about as far as mental illness is concerned is gut flora.
Speaker 1
[00.35.31]
Oh, yeah. Very important.
Speaker 2
[00.35.32]
Uh, if you have good, healthy gut flora, they make feel good chemicals. And if your gut flora is not
healthy, they're going to, you know, make things that make you depressed, hyperactive, whatever. And
the extruded cereals. The dry cereals that people give their children, they are a disaster for the gut flora.
And this is, you know, we, our children, eat a billion boxes of these cereals every year. And no wonder
they can't concentrate
Speaker 1
[00.36.04]
they're,
in school. We've got I mean, they're it's refined grains. It's like you said, they're extruded grains and
Speaker 2
[00.36.10]
they're sprayed with, uh, seed oils and sugar
Speaker 1
[00.36.14]
and glyphosate.
Speaker 2
[00.36.15]
Yes. And full of glyphosate. I mean, it's just a disaster. And if you make eggs really expensive, that
means children are going to be eating more of this garbage.
Speaker 1
[00.36.25]
And if my listeners have been listening for a while, they know that 95% of the body's neurotransmitters
are produced in the gut. Yeah. So if you've got gut issues, you're going to have neurotransmitter issues,
which translates to mental health issues. So this is so important now. Now what about glyphosate. Well
Speaker 2
[00.36.46]glyphosate is roundup. It's, uh glycine and phosphate joined. Now we have a lot of glycine in our bodies.
Glycine is involved in many enzymes, and it's also what the main component of our collagen. And when
you eat a lot of foods that are sprayed with glyphosate and that basically grains that glyphosate takes the
place of glycine and these enzymes won't work and your collagen starts to break down. And this is why,
you know, people get all of these collagen problems and they ache all the time. They're in pain because
their collagen is not working properly. It's not holding their bodies together properly. And the worst is the
grains, because it's one thing to spray a field at the beginning of the year and that glyphosate will degrade
a certain amount, but they spray the grains with glyphosate as a desiccant two days before harvest. Mhm.
So they don't have to dry the grains with, um, natural gas or whatever. And so you get the full brunt of
that glyphosate.
Speaker 1
[00.38.05]
So it's soaking into the soil and it's sprayed directly on to the
Speaker 2
[00.38.09]
plants. Yes, yes. So you know, I don't you hate to be obsessive about anything, but when it comes to
grains, whether it's your oatmeal or your bread or your rice, you want organic
Speaker 1
[00.38.25]
and grains are easy to find in organic form. And if anything, you can buy them online.
Speaker 2
[00.38.32]
It's interesting, though. It's hard to get organic bread. Um, you kind of
Speaker 1
[00.38.37]
have to look. So I just, I love making my homemade sourdough bread. Yeah. There you go. And I mean,
preferably like, we want this to be whole grain as much as possible rather than refined grains. But, I
mean, if anything, at least make sure that it's organic,
Speaker 2
[00.38.52]
organic and sourdough. It's one organic sourdough sandwich. Bread. That's it. Whole foods. I mean, I'm
just thinking of children who want a sandwich for lunch, and you make your children's lunches. You do
not let them eat cafeteria food.
Speaker 1
[00.39.07]
Yeah. Oh, don't get me started on cafeteria food.
Speaker 2
[00.39.11]
It's so awful.Speaker 1
[00.39.12]
It's so awful. I mean, when I was younger, I don't feel like I'm that old. But when I was younger, they
used to make the lunches in the cafeteria.
Speaker 2
[00.39.21]
But they don't do that anymore. Now
Speaker 1
[00.39.23]
they come from a factory. From somewhere.
Speaker 2
[00.39.25]
All wrapped in plastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.39.27]
Yeah.
Speaker 2
[00.39.30]
Another great food for depression. Anxiety is raw milk. In fact, I have a friend who suffered greatly from
anxiety. And once she started drinking raw milk, her anxiety just disappeared.
Speaker 1
[00.39.41]
Thankfully, we're seeing a movement where raw milk is being legalized in most states. How many states
is it legalized in? We're up
Speaker 2
[00.39.49]
to 47 states where farmers can provide raw milk in some form or
Speaker 1
[00.39.53]
another. So almost the entire country at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And I know where I am in Utah, it was
legalized for retail sales a few years ago. I still have yet to see that, but I know it's legal and I'm
Speaker 2
[00.40.07]just I'm sure if you. So we have a website, real milk com, and it'll tell you where to find the raw milk in
Utah or wherever.
Speaker 1
[00.40.16]
I just buy directly from my farmer for now. That works. That's good.
Speaker 2
[00.40.21]
It's the best thing to do.
Speaker 1
[00.40.23]
It really is. I mean, raw milk tastes so much better and I feel like it lasts longer, too. It's
Speaker 2
[00.40.29]
got a longer shelf life. If you, um, put it in the back of your fridge and don't open it. It'll last for two
weeks. It should do.
Speaker 1
[00.40.37]
And the farmer that I buy my milk from. He also happens to be a therapist, interestingly enough. Uh, but
he doesn't take the cream out at all, so I love it when I get it in a big mason jar. I take it home, put it in
the fridge, and it sits there for a while and the cream rises to the top. It's just it's so delicious. You can do
so many things with the cream, but then also just drinking the whole
Speaker 2
[00.40.59]
milk. Well, one of the things I think we should talk about is MSG. Yeah. MSG is not labeled, but it's in
all processed food, literally all processed foods. And MSG is insidious because it affects the
hypothalamus and it lowers the function of the hypothalamus. And the hypothalamus is the master gland,
which affects all the others. It's really MSG kind of takes away your soul. And, um, it's just in all
processed food. Uh, if you see something like, um, flavors. So they get these flavor mixes and if it's less
than 50% MSG, so it could be up to 49% MSG and they put it in the food. They don't have to label the
MSG.
Speaker 1
[00.41.48]
And I know MSG can can go under many different names
Speaker 2
[00.41.52]
too. Um, all sodium calcium carbonate, uh, protein powders are loaded with MSG because it's formed
during processing. So yeah, it's, um, this is just one more reason to strictly avoid processed foods.Speaker 1
[00.42.10]
Mhm. I notice it doesn't. It's a very rare thing when I msg, but when I do I always get a migraine.
Speaker 2
[00.42.18]
Oh you do. Well what I, I know I've eaten it if I have a dry mouth the next morning. Ah. So um yeah but
some people make some depressed. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, MSG, artificial food coloring is another one
that maybe we could discuss. Uh, but just generally stay away from the processed foods, because that's
where all that that crap is going to be. Yeah. Is in the ultra processed foods that don't look anything like
what nature intended. Right? Right.
Speaker 1
[00.42.50]
Red number three was banned.
Speaker 2
[00.42.53]
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.42.55]
the thing is,
So, I mean, we still have a ways to get to that point where it's completely out of our food system. Well,
Speaker 2
[00.43.01]
there's many other reasons not to eat the foods that these dyes are in. So it's. You know, it's just you can
choose not to eat them.
Speaker 1
[00.43.11]
You can choose not to eat them. Sometimes we don't know what we're eating. So, for example, if we're at
a company party or maybe we're at a friend's house and they serve us a homemade meal, sometimes they
put something in there. And yeah, it can be problematic.
Speaker 2
[00.43.29]
By the way, um, MSG does make you gain weight. They always say that's not true, but in laboratory
animals, the way they make them gain weight is to give them MSG. And there was actually a study with
humans in China where they took all these different families and they all prepared their own food. They
weren't eating junk food, but, you know, you can buy MSG as a flavoring mix. And so the families that
used MSG in their food, they were much heavier than the ones who didn't. And that's the hypothalamus.
The hypothalamus regulates, you know, how you digest your food where where the calories go.
Speaker 1[00.44.13]
And that's just from one ingredient, I mean.
Speaker 2
[00.44.15]
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.44.17]
It just it wreaks so much havoc. And, um, I was going to say the red number 40 tends to cause a lot of
problems for people. And I think, like, a lot of these additives are doing things to the mind. In fact, my
wife was just telling me this morning, she's like, there are certain certain foods or certain situations in
which they tell us not to feed wild animals. Yeah, because it makes them more aggressive. Yeah. And we
were like, wait, that doesn't make any sense. If it makes animals more aggressive, shouldn't we not be
eating it too? And I just told her I was like, I would feel confident feeding deer some organic
Speaker 2
[00.44.55]
spinach. Yeah that
Speaker 1
[00.44.57]
that that would be okay. But the reason they have to say that is because typically when somebody feeds
wild animals, it ends up being this ultra processed food. The things that make humans more aggressive or
depressed or angry or or whatever. Where are coming near the end of our episode. Um, Sally, if there is
just one thing that my listeners could take with them and remember from this episode, what would you
say is the most important thing?
Speaker 2
[00.45.25]
I'd go back to eat better, eat better? Yeah, and eat lots of butter. Don't be afraid of it. And I guarantee you
your cravings for sugar and other things you shouldn't be eating well will decline. I
Speaker 1
[00.45.37]
wholeheartedly agree with that. I mean, it's so easy to find grass fed butter now. I mean, it's not
necessarily going to be raw, but you can find grass fed butter like Kerrygold is a really popular brand.
Speaker 2
[00.45.49]
I get, uh, New Zealand butter and Costco's carries Kirkland butter. So yeah, it's it's around. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.45.57]
And so start with that. If you can't do anything else, at least go for that, that high quality butter and eat
lots of it.Speaker 2
[00.46.04]
Yes. Rockets put it on everything. You'll find that you actually end up eating less because it's so
satisfying.
Speaker 1
[00.46.13]
Yeah. That's food. When I was eating more butter, I ate a lot of it, and I was buying it like it was going
out of style. But then after a couple months, yeah, my body didn't. My body didn't want it as much. I still
eat it every day, but I don't eat it as much. And so maybe there was
Speaker 2
[00.46.29]
a lot of people say that, yeah,
Speaker 1
[00.46.31]
maybe there was a fat deficiency or nutrient deficiency, and I had to replenish that before I could back off
from that. Um, one last thing. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you and your
Speaker 2
[00.46.46]
work? Well, the Weston Price Foundation's website is Weston a price org? And that's Weston. That's his
name. It's a huge website, and you can pretty much find anything you want there. Um, we have a website
tour. Uh, on the right hand nav bar. This is also the place where you can find our local chapters to help
you find the local food. And kind of a lot of them have meetings that are very, very popular. We are
having a membership campaign right now, and we'd love to have you as a member. Memberships are
$40. Been the same since 2000.
Speaker 1
[00.47.28]
And that's for the whole year. And
Speaker 2
[00.47.30]
that's for the whole year. And you get for journals and a lot of really interesting materials, um, with your
memberships. And my own website is Nourishing Traditions. Com nourishing traditions. Com. I do write
a blog, but I have to admit I haven't been doing blogs lately. I'm working on some other things, but, um,
there's a lot of interesting material at Nourishing traditions.com, including an interesting article on
measles, measles and vitamin A. Mm.
Speaker 1
[00.48.03]
Great. Thank you so much for being here, Sally. I've really enjoyed our conversation.
Speaker 2[00.48.08]
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1
[00.48.10]
If you want an affordable way to get started eating whole foods and potentially transitioning to the
traditional or ancestral foods that we've been talking about in this episode, check out my group nutrition
program called restart. Go to Beaver Creek wellness.com/restart for more information. If you enjoyed
this episode, make sure you leave a review that really helps me out and also subscribe to the show
wherever you listen to your podcasts. Real Food Mental Health is intended for informational and
entertainment purposes only. The information presented on this podcast is not intended to replace any
medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. While I am a health care provider, I am not your provider.
Always seek the advice of an appropriate health care practitioner with any personal questions you may
have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it
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