016: Holistically Healing Anxiety & Relationships, with Lilly Rachels
Speaker 1
[00.00.00]
Hey, hey. Today's guest is Lily Rachels, and she is a relationship coach who helps individuals identify
and break unhealthy emotional patterns, connect with their core values, and communicate with clarity
and confidence. With a master's degree in social work and a background in therapy and trauma sensitive
yoga, Lily specializes in inner child work to guide clients toward creating healthy, lasting relationships.
Lily sits on the Advisory Board for survivors for change, an organization that provides education,
advocacy, and wellness resources to support sexual abuse survivors on their healing and justice journey.
Lily currently lives part time in Nashville, Tennessee and part time on the road in an RV with her
romantic partner and their pups. I am giving away a free metabolic health bundle. This includes a Garmin
fitness tracker. Garmin is a leading brand in fitness trackers. This particular model that I'm giving away
does track your heart rate, your sleep, your steps, and a bunch of other things. But then, in addition to the
fitness tracker, the winner will get a choice between either two individualized nutrition sessions with me
or free entry into the restart program, which I've mentioned on previous episodes. If you would like to
enter this giveaway, go to Beaver Creek Wellness Slash giveaway. As of the time of this recording, I do
not have very many entries into this giveaway. Now, to be fair, the giveaway goes for a few more weeks
until the end of February, but if you want a really good chance of winning, enter right now! Beavercreek
wellness.com/giveaway. Welcome to the Real Food Mental Health podcast, where we explore the
powerful connection between mental and physical health. My name is Cody Cox, a holistic nutritional
psychotherapist, and I'm here to guide you on a journey to true wellness mind, body, and spirit. If you're
tired of quick fixes and want real solutions that address the root cause, you're in the right place. Let's get
started on your path to lasting wellness. So, Lily, can you share what inspired your transition from
conventional therapy to what you're doing now?
Speaker 2
[00.02.27]
Yes, I'd love to. So I came to the therapy world through yoga and the exercise world, and I got really
interested in hearing people's stories, because I noticed people like to tell me about their lives when I
would be in the gym with them. And so I decided to go get my master's in social work. And I worked as
an adolescent therapist, and I had a client come in one day who I was doing her intake, and she had
clearly been through at least 5 or 6 therapists from the company I worked in. She just, you know, told me
all about all of the stuff going on with her, like she had done many times before, and started telling me
about the different prescriptions she was on. And it was like an antidepressant, anti-anxiety, something
for her stomach to help with the anxiety and antipsychotic. There were so many medications she was on.
She was 17 years old, and I was just sitting there listening to her share her past trauma like it was
nothing, just, you know, repeating it as quick as possible, trying to update me on her. And I remember
kind of leaning back in my chair and I said, have you had any water to drink today? And she just looked
at me like I was crazy. And she was like, no. And I was like, well, when's the last time you had a glass of
water? She was like, I don't know, a couple of days ago. And I told her when she left that day, I was like,
your assignment is to drink at least six cups of water for the next week until you see me again. I was like,
because, like, your body and brain isn't even in a place where, like what we talk about and we work on,
like we need to take care of the vessel. Like we have to support your body so that you can, you know,
work through these things that you're coming to me for. And that was kind of the moment where I started
to get a little disenchanted with the traditional world of therapy, and I wanted to take a more holistic
approach. And involve more than just, you know, talk therapy, CBT, more than just the mind, but really
the body and our whole experience as humans.
Speaker 1
[00.04.28]Yeah, I like to say that I address more of the bio part of the biopsychosocial model of therapy. And most
therapists, frankly, aren't equipped to do that like we're taught the biopsychosocial. But we we kind of
gather the medical history of our, our clients or our patients, and then we just focus on the psychosocial
for the rest of treatment. And so, so by doing more of a holistic approach, we are we're still addressing
the psychosocial. Right. But then we're also considering maybe even directly addressing that biocide too,
which is so, so important.
Speaker 2
[00.05.07]
Absolutely. I think about, you know, if you want to work through something that feels like it's in your
head, but you're not even supporting just the health of your brain in general, it's hard to ask your mind to
do these things when you're not giving it the support or, you know, I know you do a lot with nutrition. It's
like the nutrition or even I do a lot physically with my background in personal training, in yoga, it's like
the movement of your body and just taking care again, taking care of the vessel that's carrying your mind
around
Speaker 1
[00.05.39]
and it's amazing. I was actually just telling my wife the other day, I was like, I think we would have a lot
fewer divorces in America, if only we would all eat whole foods and take care of our nervous systems.
Like. I think in most cases, divorces come from people just being in a sympathetic dominance or
otherwise known as a fight or flight state. Right? They're stressed out. They're anxious. They've got so
many mood issues, irritability, they they're less patient with each other. When it comes to relationships
that it causes relationship problems. And so you specialize in like you mostly work with relationships,
right. So what have you seen like what seems to be the most common issue in relationships as far as like
holistic perspective goes?
Speaker 2
[00.06.30]
Yeah, I think one of the biggest breakdowns in relationships comes in communication and how we let
each other in, how we talk to one another. And I love what you shared about. It's like, you know, a lot of
people that are in survival, they're in that sympathetic charge, that fight or flight. And when we're in that
place, it's really hard to interact in a nurturing, loving way with the person in our lives. And
unfortunately, it's often the person that we we say we love the most that gets just the worst version of us.
And I love what you said. If we were all more regulated and nourishing our bodies than we would be in
that state more often, where we can be more receptive to our partner. But what I see a lot in relationships
is, you know, we again, if you're in that state of survival and maybe you're feeling frustrated a lot or
anxiety a lot when we don't know what to do with that, and we're not taking care of ourselves and able to
regulate, we either, maybe we suppress it and we try to just ignore it and it festers, or we project it onto
our partner and we start blaming them for where we are, because it's that closest person to us. And, you
know, you you're married. Like, you know, it's sometimes it's a lot easier to look at, you know, oh,
maybe something's wrong with her. This is with her than to look at ourselves, because it's can be really
uncomfortable to look at ourselves and take ownership of, you know, what we're bringing to the
relationship or what we're really not bringing to the relationship when we're in that state of survival.
Speaker 1
[00.08.02]
Yeah, that's a good point. I actually have I have a degree in sociology, so I like to analyze the social
things too. And and I hadn't really thought about that, about how we tend to nitpick. With the person who
with whom we're closest to. And it's probably because we're just around them a lot. And so we start to
look past their positive qualities and look for the negative qualities to try to figure out, like, how can we
become closer to this person? And I mean, I think that's a subconscious thing. We're not like intentionallydoing that, but it creates a lot of conflict where we hyper focus on the negative. But then if we are in that
sympathetic dominance, that fight or flight state or the stressed out state, the anxious state, whatever we
want to call it, we're naturally going to be more negative. We're going to be less patient. We're going to
be less pleasant to be around even. And so how would you address that if you were working with a client
who who had that issue? Um, or maybe a couple of clients who have that issue. How would you address
it?
Speaker 2
[00.09.11]
There's a book titled Fierce Intimacy. I don't know if you've read it by Terrence Real. And in it, he talks
about the core negative image you have of your partner. And I like to use this when I'm working with
clients because it's this. It's the worst possible version of your partner that exists in your head. It's like
their their villain persona. And when we're upset, when we're stressed out, a lot of times we filter what
our perception or our perspective of our partner through this core negative image that in reality, your
partner is never going to be as bad as this kind of negative image in your mind. And so one of the things
I'll do when I'm working with someone who comes to me, if they're in a relationship and they're trying to
turn the relationship around and get back to a place where it feels safe, secure and loving is to get really
curious about, like, what is that worst version of your partner that exists? And if we bring evidence into
it, like is there evidence that that is supported? Is there evidence that, you know, that is actually who your
partner is, or is it all the assumptions you're making about the situation? Or maybe it's past relationship
baggage you've brought into the relationship that's affecting this negative image you have? And so we'll
work on that. And then also towards kind of bridging the gap into like how could if we're going to make
assumptions which let's try not to, but how could we, you know, assume positive regard and kind of give
our partner that benefit of the doubt instead of letting our brain immediately go to that worst case
scenario, that villain persona of our partner. Mhm. And that the unconditional positive regard for listeners
who are not aware, that's kind of a normal thing among therapists. So, um, Lilly is a former social
worker. I am currently a counselor. And I think we both have that that ethical guideline that we're
supposed to follow. It's a very difficult thing to have unconditional positive regard, especially when you
are physically feeling lousy.
Speaker 1
[00.11.16]
Um, and so that mind body connection is so, so important. Lilly, how would you address it with yoga?
Speaker 2
[00.11.23]
With yoga? Well, I want to go back real quick because talk about that mind body. You know, whenever
we're talking about relationships, I personally believe it's like the first relationship you really need to
focus on is the one you have with yourself. Because if you have a negative self-image, if you have a a
bad relationship, maybe even an abusive relationship towards yourself. It's very easy to project that
negativity onto your partner or assume that's how they feel about you. Um, now bringing yoga into it.
What I love about yoga is the mindfulness piece. It's obviously it's great for your body. It's very calming,
very grounding, but it's bringing yourself to a state where you're kind of. One of my favorite things about
it. You're kind of cutting out the noise in the world, and you're focusing on just one thing. Maybe it's, you
know, the asana, the movement and the breath, and you're giving yourself a space to regulate in a space
to ground yourself, especially if you're someone who can maybe struggle with feeling more emotional
and you're not really sure what to do with your emotions. Or like you said, you're in that fight or flight
response. It can be a really great grounding technique. At least that's what I found when I do yoga. Yeah,
and I feel like you kind of made a segue into yoga when you were you were talking about that self-
acceptance. Because. Because to me, yoga is all about that self-acceptance. And I mean, yeah, it's it's
honoring those around you as well. But I come to that a lot in my clinical work, where it seems like so
many people have this issue of a lack of self-love, where like, if you're practicing yoga asanas
particularly, and you're being mindful with those, those movements, your breath, your surroundings, yousort of develop that self-love as you as you come to accept who you are as you are in the present moment.
And I think it does start with that where
Speaker 1
[00.13.27]
where we tend to project. Judgmental ism or hatred or whatever toward other people when we don't
necessarily love ourselves.
Speaker 2
[00.13.38]
Mhm. And like you said, coming back to that practice when you're practicing that grace and care and
softness towards yourself, and that becomes more of a learned behavior where, you know, I find when I,
you know, whether I'm going to the gym or I'm doing yoga, it's sacred in a sense that I'm being kind to
myself. I'm not punishing myself by doing yoga. I'm like, I'm being kind. I'm giving myself something I
need. And when you give yourself something you need, it's easier to then give that same care to your
partner. But if you're constantly, you know, if you're you're not taking care of yourself, you're not
nourishing yourself. You're not nourishing your body. Again, it's hard to give that nourishment to
someone else if you don't have it. It's kind of the the saying of, you know, you have to fill your cup first,
but it's like you do because then you have nothing to pour out into a relationship or into any relationship
around you.
Speaker 1
[00.14.30]
Mhm. Yeah. How how has your background in trauma informed yoga and social work shaped what
you're doing now?
Speaker 2
[00.14.40]
Yeah. So that trauma informed yoga, that background. I really worked with women that were coming out
of domestic violence. And so a lot of the like trauma sensitive yoga is really taking care and like making
sure safety is established before you, especially when it's the asana, the actual physical movements before
someone goes into different positions, because some things can be very triggering to someone,
particularly if they faced physical or sexual trauma to their body. And so I would say how that's
influenced my work. The yoga side of it is establishing safety, especially with a client. Um, that can be,
you know, emotional safety, really bringing them into a grounded place. A lot of times when I start, like
a call like this, I guess will be we're doing audio only, but a call with my client, particularly if they come
in and I can tell they're kind of in that flight mode a little bit like they're they're not really settled. They're
feeling anxious. I'll bring them through either a meditation or some sort of orienting exercise. And it just
establishes that safety. And that was something that definitely came out of the trauma informed yoga.
And then my social work background, I think really plays into, you know, the empowerment and giving
people tools and resources to help themselves. I've told clients before that my goal in working with you is
that you don't need me anymore. Like, I don't want to be someone that you're talking to years from now.
Again and again, I want to equip you with the tools that you know, the next time this situation comes up
in your relationship. Like you can work through it because you're empowered to work through it, and
now you have the skills that you need to work through it, and you've dealt with whatever it was that was
blocking you in the first place.
Speaker 1
[00.16.31]
Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned that because I've been telling people for years, my goal for you is to
not need me anymore,Speaker 2
[00.16.38]
work your way out of the job.
Speaker 1
[00.16.40]
It's kind of the opposite of the way the medical system is set up. I mean, technically, therapists are sort of
part of the medical system. We are healthcare providers, but the way that they often do it is we want you
to come back for checkups because that's a consistent income for us. It's not that you actually need the
checkup. It just ensures that we'll we'll have that consistent income to stay in business. Uh, and therapy
doesn't quite work that way. I think I had, like, one person a few years ago actually come to me for a
mental health checkup, and he was a police officer. Like, I really admire him for for recognizing that he
might need that. But I was like, we don't really do checkups in therapy, but, I mean, we can talk for a few
sessions and see how you're doing and, um, I'll do what I can to help you feel better if that needs to be the
case. But, um, but yeah, it's kind of a business model. And I've been telling people, like I said, my job is
to make you not need me anymore. Because ultimately, we want you to be self-reliant. We want you to
have the skills that you can use on yourself, and not have to keep hiring a professional to to teach you
those skills or to walk you through them.
Speaker 2
[00.18.00]
I completely agree with you and something I found because I focus, you know, more on relationships is,
you know, a lot of times, depending on how you grow up, like you might not have gotten the skills on,
you know, how do I handle conflict? How do I communicate my needs and my desires to another person?
And so, you know, therapy, coaching, those can be great places to get those skills. But yeah, it's not.
While I would while I, I care about people and I want to you know them to know I'm always there. It's
like this isn't a lifelong relationship. Meaning like now you get to go off and use those skills and and
grow and yeah, take, take care of your problems because you you have that ability now it's not going to
feel completely overwhelming.
Speaker 1
[00.18.44]
Mhm. Yeah I actually did have a client who I think I saw him for like three and a half years. And some
people do. Some people are in therapy for for years or even decades, sometimes even with the same
therapist for that whole time. And hopefully that's not the case for most of us. Um, generally we just want
to get that help, whether it's a coach or a therapist or, or whoever, just maybe for a few months. And
we've learned those skills that we need to be mostly self sufficient to go off on our own and start
practicing what we learned.
Speaker 2
[00.19.24]
I know the times in my life where I have sought out, um, a therapist or support in another way. It's
always it's typically been for either a specific event that occurred in my life or something that became
really apparent I needed to work on. And every time it was really successful. But I think part of the
success in my experience was we were very clear, you know, about like, what I wanted to work on and
where I wanted to get. And so those goals, they were, you know, they were measurable. And that was
really helpful for me. I don't know if that's been your experience at all or if you've done your own sort,
your own support in life. But yeah. And I've said the same thing to clients where I'm like, I don't want to
become an expensive best friend of yours that you just come and talk to. I want you to know our time
together to be productive and contribute to where you want to get to in life.Speaker 1
[00.20.18]
Yeah, it is interesting. I've had many, many people come to me and they're like, first I asked them, tell
me what brings you to therapy? And they say, well, I just wanted someone to talk to. And I'm like, okay,
well, you do realize therapy is going to take some work. It's not just sitting back and talking. And
sometimes I have to keep reminding people. They come and they vent for 15 minutes or an hour,
however long it is. And after a few sessions of that, I'm just like, okay, just just reminding you you're
paying for the sessions and this is not what therapy's for. But if you're okay with just venting and paying
for it, then okay, you're just not. That's
Speaker 2
[00.20.58]
your prerogative. Yeah,
Speaker 1
[00.20.59]
yeah, yeah. Um, but as far as communication in relationships go, do you use any like specific theoretical
approaches, maybe informed by your social work experience or anything in particular that you found to
be really helpful in relationships?
Speaker 2
[00.21.19]
You know, when I look at like different modalities, motivational interviewing, I think the concepts from
that can be really helpful in relationships when it comes to communicating with your partner. And one of
the biggest things I find that breaks down communication, especially during conflict, is couples will fight
about two different things in the same conversation and not be aware that they're doing it. So I'll have
like the thing that's bugging me and, you know, my partner has the thing that's bugging him. And we
think we're talking about the same thing, but we're not. It's almost like we're having these conversations
almost parallel. They're not intersecting, but it's getting more and more frustrating. And so, you know, in
motivational interviewing, there's, you know, asking open ended questions. But what I love is the the
summarizing and paraphrasing what you heard and then saying that back. And I always have my clients,
I'm like and then say, this is what I'm hearing. You can summarize it and say, is this what you meant? Or
is it something else just so you can get on the same page? Because I see it all the time where relationships
will disintegrate because of misunderstandings. And I've told friends and clients in the past, I'm like, I'm
not so set on you two staying together. Like that's my goal in life is not to make sure that your
relationship works, but I want to give you the tools so that, you know, like you're very clear about. You
know, again, what you want, what you need, what you're fighting about. So that you can make an
informed decision. And you guys can either move forward together or if the relationship doesn't stand the
test of time and it's not meant to continue to go forward, you're clear on why. It's not on a
misunderstanding or because, you know, you were just on two separate pages. You can kind of get back,
get back on the same page. So I found motivational interviewing to be really helpful and cutting through
the kind of clutter of conversation.
Speaker 1
[00.23.13]
Motivational interviewing has been so helpful in so many contexts. I've even heard that it's taught in
business school. And so like, it's not just a therapy thing. And I and they I think they even teach it in like
life coaching courses and nutritional courses. I think it was even covered in my nutrition course. Um, and
it's, it's such a, a good tool to have. And sometimes I feel like it's a bit manipulative, which makes me a
little bit resistant to using it.Speaker 2
[00.23.41]
I could see that being used in sales. I could see I could see the the tactics that could be used to be
manipulative. Um, especially if you're trying to ask questions to get a certain answer. Yeah. And I think
the other thing I talked to my clients a lot about in communication is really coming from a place of
curiosity. And not making assumptions about your partner or trying to manipulate your partner, which
you know. I think sometimes if you come from a place where you've struggled to use your voice and be
direct, it can feel more comfortable to be kind of passive aggressive, which can be more manipulative.
And I could see that, yes, there could be kind of that the dark side to any tool, I guess. Um, but you're
right. You know, that's interesting. I, I haven't myself, I haven't done business school, but I'm like, I bet
they do teach that in sales.
Speaker 1
[00.24.36]
Yeah, yeah, it's totally a marketing thing. And I've even wondered too, like as providers, coaches,
basically those of us who are in a, in a helping role, if we're using motivational interviewing, are we
manipulating our clients into getting better? Is that an ethical dilemma? What do you think? That's
interesting. That's interesting. I think it comes from how much are you trying to decide what's best for
your client, and how much are you letting them lead and decide what's best for them? Because, you
know, I think this also can show up a lot in like a parent child relationship where it's like you have in
mind maybe the best direction for your child or where they should go, maybe say after high school. And
it can be very tempting to really push someone and guide someone towards what you think is best for
them without taking into account that, like, they might have a say in that. And I see that particularly when
people come to me, that's why when it comes to their relationship, I'm like, I'm not here to be the one to
say you need to stay or leave a relationship, that this should last or not last. I think really letting the client
lead.
Speaker 2
[00.25.53]
And kind of choose the direction that they want to go. Can keep you from that like ethical dilemma. But
if you're trying to lead and almost create the life that you think your client should have, then I would say
yes, that's what I would say. Stepping outside the bounds of what the role is.
Speaker 1
[00.26.10]
Yeah. Well said. And do you ever teach motivational interviewing skills to clients so that they can use
them with each other as part of a relationship?
Speaker 2
[00.26.20]
I would say the skills, it's more pieces from that. So again, um, in conversation when we talk about
becoming like communication, becoming a better listener, I'll have them use that. You know, this is what
I'm hearing you say, and then summarize what you heard and then asking for clarity. Is this what you
mentor? Something else? I teach them that tool because again, it can cut through the misunderstanding
and and it helps us stay curious instead of and maybe you've been there, I know I have where you're
having a conversation and you're listening, but what you're doing at the same time is kind of thinking
through your own response in your head. It's almost like you're preparing your rebuttal instead of saying
staying present with the person in front of you. And so I do teach them that tool. To again, it's like let'ssummarize what we heard or paraphrase what we heard and ask for clarity. Like is this what you meant?
And then give your partner the opportunity to say, that's exactly what I mean. Or no, you're not hearing
me correctly.
Speaker 1
[00.27.19]
Do you feel like there's a place for like, medication in relationships? Like maybe an antidepressant,
antidepressant or anxiety medication? You feel like there's a role in that for.
Speaker 2
[00.27.35]
Yeah. You know, I have very mixed feelings about medications. And I had a supervisor once that the
way he defined this, I thought was very useful. He said a medication is like clogging the hole in the boat
while you use therapy and other tools to get the water out. And so I think a medication can be used along
with other sources of support, if it's if it's necessary. I don't think it's, you know, there's a this is good or
this is bad. I think it depends on the situation. Unfortunately, what I have seen in working with people. Is
kind of an over medication, and I had a client recently who was put on an antidepressant by a doctor, and
I knew from working with her that she was grieving because she had she had lost, um, actually a pet that
she was very close to. And her experience, like in working with her, I could see, was like she was going
through the stages of grief. But when she went to the provider and talked about how she was, you know,
sad, they saw it as you need to we need to medicate the depression. Um, and she actually ended up
getting off of the medication because it caused several other things that were not helpful to her. And so I,
I personally don't look at that as the first choice. I think there's so many things we can do to support our
body, whether it's physically, nutritionally and then support ourselves, whether there's, you know, past
things we need to work through. And I don't know if you've seen this, and I'm actually really curious, but
I know when I was working as a therapist, the majority of the times I would have a client on a
medication. Whether it was depression or anxiety most of the time. What they were experiencing in the
moment could be linked back to. In my case, I worked when I was working with adolescents early
childhood trauma and and it broke my heart because they weren't getting the support initially to address
the trauma they were getting, just the medication to mask and kind of Band-Aid the symptoms. Have you
had that experience at all?
Speaker 1
[00.29.47]
Yes, definitely. And I think that really is my my big issue with conventional psychotherapy is it's more
about masking the symptoms. And once again, to go back to the medical system, we do the same thing
in, in um, physical health too. So when we see a doctor, a physician, they do the same thing. They write
you a prescription to mask the symptoms, but they don't really look into what might be the root cause of
the problem. And I mean, to be fair, I think a lot of people do just want to mask symptoms for the rest of
their life because it's just easier. But they don't know what they're missing when they could address that
root cause and feel better and not need that medication for 80 years or however long they end up taking it.
Speaker 2
[00.30.37]
Yeah. And and I do get that because I've always been someone and even when I go to the doctor, if
something's bothering me, I'm like, I don't want a pill. Like, I want to know what I can do to get better.
But I can see how tempting it can be when it's like when you feel awful and you think, well, if I could
just take this. I don't have to do anything that I'm with you. I wish more people would understand that,
you know, and I've had this happen to with clients that would come on, particularly antidepressants, that
it might kind of numb those uncomfortable emotions that they're feeling. But it's also numbing the joy
that they're feeling. And it's keeping them in this kind of numb state in general to life. And I always think
about if you were to watch a movie in grayscale or maybe add just a little bit of color back, but you're notseeing like the vivid color of life. And when we whether it's, you know, antidepressant anti-anxiety
medication, we don't get to just pick and choose which emotions we really get to experience.
Speaker 1
[00.31.39]
Yeah. And in many cases, something like an antidepressant keeps you from feeling emotion at all. And
so I've heard that from many, many people with one medication in particular that to to the point that it it
causes a person to feel apathetic about life. Yeah. And I even have a family member who was taking that
medication at one point and he said. My house could be burning down around me, and I would just shrug
my shoulders and say, hey. And I'm like, yeah, that that sounds like that particular drug. And so we do
have to weigh the pros and cons of these things where it's like you were saying with your your metaphor
of plugging up that hole in the boat so that you can remove all the other problems from your life while
you while you get therapy. I do think medication has its place, but my personal clinical philosophy is is
more in that we use it as a last resort.
Speaker 2
[00.32.44]
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.32.46]
If somebody is, maybe they're suicidal. They are just totally unmotivated to make even the smallest of
diet and lifestyle changes. Then maybe medication could help them to just get them back on their feet so
they can make the diet and lifestyle changes. But I would emphasize the diet and lifestyle. Once they're
capable of doing it. Just. Just for the sake of sustainability. And I was even taught, I don't know if it was
in graduate school or like a training that I did, but even in conventional training, we are taught that
medication, especially psychiatric medication, is meant to be taken while you are getting therapy. It's not
meant to be taken alone. Yeah, because you're because pills don't teach skills. Oh, that's that's a great way
to say it. Yeah,
Speaker 2
[00.33.42]
yeah. That's I it does make me sad how many people, whether they're clients or people I know who will
get prescribed something and they're not getting those skills. And I think to that because I've friends that
have, um, I don't have children, but I have friends that have children that talk about, you know, how
many of their friends peers are on, like an anti-anxiety medication. And it has me thinking that, you
know, maybe we're not doing a very good job teaching kids and young adults that it's okay to feel
uncomfortable, that we don't have to. We're not designed just to feel, you know, fantastic all the time
that, you know, sadness or even the sensation of, you know, feeling anxious, like. It's part of the human
experience. And those emotions are signals. They're not something to be, like labeled good or bad. You
know that there can be healthy and unhealthy expressions of them. And we can, you know, obviously, if
we again, if we suppress our sadness, then that could lead to feeling more depressed. But the sadness
alone isn't a bad feeling that it's just it's that it's an emotional signal. And, you know, especially when I
hear about kids that are prescribed, like the antidepressants and the anti-anxiety medication that I'm like,
I wish someone was teaching them more, that it's like, this is a full range of emotion that's available to
you. And again, it's like you want to feel like all the emotions like those are we have those for a reason.
Like we're designed to be able to feel.
Speaker 1
[00.35.18]Yeah. And we actually we live in a culture where it's not okay to feel like we're taught to suppress those
emotions in the workplace, in a school setting. Um, and I mean, that's where those two places are where
we spend most of our time as Americans. But it's not okay to be human for some reason. But imagine
what that's doing, especially for little kids. Where it's like, oh well, stop crying. You're not allowed to
cry. And I wonder too, if, like you were talking about how, like, we shouldn't label emotions as good or
bad, but maybe we could just shift that terminology to pleasant and unpleasant. But I'm going to make
the very clear point that unpleasant isn't necessarily bad.
Speaker 2
[00.36.06]
I always, I say, comfortable and uncomfortable to experience because, you know, I again, taking it back
to the physical body and the gym, I, I love to work out, and doing squats with weight on your back is not
comfortable. It's not a comfortable sensation. It's it's I feel tired now. I feel stronger after I do it. But if I
was like, well, I just want to be comfortable, then I might lay in my bed all day on a fluffy pillow. So it's
like being uncomfortable isn't bad for you. And so even experiencing an emotion that's not necessarily a
comfortable sensation in your body, it doesn't mean that it's it's bad and wrong. It's just like you said, is it
pleasant or is it unpleasant? And reframing that instead of, you know, labeling? Because I don't know
about you, but I remember growing up, I thought, you know, being sad was bad and being angry was
bad. And so I suppressed a lot of emotions early on because I was afraid to feel them, because I didn't
want to feel, you know, the bad things.
Speaker 1
[00.37.06]
But in many cases, when you feel those things and express those things in a healthy way, it helps you to
resolve whatever problem is in there. And I was also thinking when I did my nutrition training, we had a
class on stress, which as a therapist I was like, I feel like I'm pretty good with stress, like I know how to
address that. But one thing that I wasn't taught before was the fact that stress can be a good thing. And so
so we've got distress. That's the the stress that arguably could be a clinical problem. Or we also have you
stress. So you stress you is the positive stress. And so for example if you are exercising maybe you're
lifting some heavy weights. You are putting stress on your muscles, on your bones, maybe even a little
bit of psychological stress during that process. But that is good stress. And so not all stress is bad. But I
would say even distress can be good too. Because we learn life lessons. We we learn skills on how to
navigate the trauma or, or whatever it is. But I think there's always something that good, something good
that comes out of stress in general, whether it's distress or use stress.
Speaker 2
[00.38.34]
Um, I think it can be motivating to us to, to change whether it's our circumstance. Um, you know,
something in your career, um, something in your physical health, it's like, again, it's it's like a signal. And
when we're really comfortable all the time, there's not really a need to change anything. So sometimes,
like, I'm with you, I think that stress can come in and be kind of a little bit of a fire starter for us to realize
that, oh, this needs to shift. Or maybe I need to look at this thing.
Speaker 1
[00.39.09]
Um, yeah. And yoga kind of going back to the yoga thing. I was thinking, as we are doing the asanas, the
deep breathing we are experiencing that that distress that you stress, maybe more distress when you're a
beginner yoga practitioner. But it can really help to build resilience and skills, particularly that self-love
we were talking about earlier. Uh, mindfulness. Just there are so many things that happen in yoga. I love
it, and I wish more people would do it. I even wish that I did it more.Speaker 2
[00.39.47]
I, I, I completely agree with you. I think I, I think it should be taught in schools. I think it, you know,
being able to, you know, even the meditation part of it, being able to sit quietly with your own thoughts,
it's a great way to build resilience.
Speaker 1
[00.40.05]
A guest recently told me that something like 95% of podcasts fail within the first few episodes, and I can
see why, because there is so much time and energy that goes into the production of a show like this one.
If you would like to support me in the production of this podcast, go to Kofi. That's kofi.com/cody Cox.
You can pay a couple dollars or you can pay more if that's something you can afford. But either way, I'm
going to continue to produce free content for as long as I possibly can because this information is so
important and I want everybody to be able to access it. Thanks so much for listening today. Kind of
shifting a little bit more toward, uh, relationship coaching. What would you say are some
misconceptions? About relationships. I mean, we kind of alluded to those a little bit earlier, but now.
Particularly, what are some misconceptions about what might be causing relationship problems and
misconceptions about solutions to improving relationships?
Speaker 2
[00.41.17]
I think a misconception about relationships in general can be that when you meet someone that they will
be able to, you know, everything else goes away. Like all the pain you've experienced before goes away.
And I've said this to clients that I'm like, you're not going to meet someone that can just love the trauma
out of you, that can love you enough, that you don't have to deal with anything that's ever happened in
the past because you're putting so much pressure on that person. And I think in general, in relationships,
you know, I look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs and I look at like my grandparents relationship and their
relationship. It was really, you know, that lower level of the pyramid where like they needed each other,
they needed each other for, you know, whether it was, you know, economically, um, kind of survival at
that point. And then my parents relationship, it was a lot more of that love and belonging. They got more
of that. But now I look at relationships today, and I think we're almost expecting another person to get us
to the top of the pyramid with that self-actualization. Like, we just are expecting so much out of another
person that the relationship doesn't live up to our expectation and we forget that, you know? We all come
in, you know, to a relationship with our whether it's our own baggage from past relationships or, you
know, our own desires for what we want a relationship to look like. And so, again, I think a big
misconception is, you know, as soon as I meet the one or I find this perfect person, everything will be
perfect and we'll just get along magically. And so then people aren't prepared to, you know, have to
navigate conflict with someone. Because even if you meet someone who your compatibility levels are
just, you know, off the charts, they're still going to be outside pressure and stressors that you'll experience
just being a human on this planet, outside of the relationship that can affect the relationship. And so,
yeah, I think a misconception, again, is just having kind of a crazy expectation of what you should get
out of another person.
Speaker 1
[00.43.26]
Interesting that you brought in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, which is a concept that I'm totally
fascinated with, but I never thought to apply that to relationships. Um, I have noticed to you that that
some people skip the different levels of the hierarchy and some people do okay with it. Like for example,
maybe you're homeless, but you are really, really spiritually oriented. And I mean, life could be better in
some ways, but some people are very happy skipping those levels. But I think in most cases you do need
to start at the bottom and work your way up.Speaker 2
[00.44.05]
Yeah. Yeah. And again when I, when I apply it kind of the concept of relationships, it's to me it's not
expecting another person to meet all of our needs and realizing that if you put that much pressure on one
other individual to meet every need you have, it's it's too much pressure on the relationship. And I, I find
people are kind of constantly disappointed because, again, we carry these kind of um, there's a Chris
Williamson said it. Well, it's I always call them verbalized expectations. And he called them
premeditated resentments because if we're not, you know, if we're not really clear about what we need
from someone or what we want from someone, and we don't talk to them about that, then we can start to
resent them even when they're not aware that they're not doing it. And so when I think of, you know, kind
of bringing Maslow's hierarchy of needs into that, it's like if we're expecting someone to just kind of hit
every level, so to speak, or get us to the self-actualization. It's just so much pressure on another person.
Speaker 1
[00.45.11]
What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone feeling stuck in unhealthy emotional or relationship
patterns? Like if if there was like one broad stroke of advice that you would give to most people, what
seems to work for just the general public?
Speaker 2
[00.45.32]
Well, I would say something that I think to anyone who is either in a relationship and they want it to get
better or they want to be in a relationship, kind of a broad stroke. And it might sound like a complicated
thing, but it's to get really curious about that first relationship. You were ever in the one with your parents
or your primary caregiver who ever raised you. And, you know, asking yourself kind of those questions
of, you know, whose love did I crave the most when I was younger? And what did I think I had to do to
get it? It might give you some good insight to what you're either searching for in a relationship, or what
you're trying to get out of another person, because a lot of times, you know, whatever it was that we
really craved and we really wanted when we were little, we will search for in romantic partners.
Speaker 1
[00.46.23]
Well said. And where do you see the intersection of wholistic mental health and relationship coaching
evolving in the next few years? Are you kind of hoping that that'll change direction? Like, um, as far as
popularity goes or legislation goes?
Speaker 2
[00.46.43]
I think we're moving towards that. I, I really do. I mean, I'm an optimist. So I'm going to I typically have
an optimistic view of the future. Um, just that's I always have like, the optimism bone. That's just how I,
how I've always been. But I see them becoming more and more integrated. I think people are realizing
more and more that, you know, it makes sense that we have to take care of ourselves physically in order
to take care of ourselves mentally and emotionally. And I'm very hopeful that that trend is going to catch
on more. And even noticing, you know, people realizing the importance of getting outside and putting
your bare feet in the grass. And I feel like that is growing more and more this even kind of coming back
to nature, at least in the circle I'm in, I've noticed more people kind of adopting this mindset. And
Speaker 1
[00.47.37]that might be one thing we can think social media for. Like, I'm personally not a huge fan of social
media, but it seems like that perspective has grown because of things like TikTok and Instagram, where
people are sharing videos, they're sharing memes about holistic health, the importance of of having your
bare feet in the grass or, um, eating whole foods, things like that. And I'm really hopeful for that too. And
I've been hearing from a lot of people that. Holistic health is going to just explode in popularity and
demand. I still have yet to see that, I think, but I can see things kind of coming together to where it could
happen soon, to where I. I don't know if it'll ever become totally mainstream, but I'm hoping,
Speaker 2
[00.48.33]
yeah, at least less taboo. Again, I don't know if it will, you know, be mainstream, but I think I think less
taboo. And I think, you know, being more in the Western world, like the eastern philosophy is becoming
more ingrained as well. So I hope that we have that again. I'm going to stay optimistic. Yeah. And I don't
know if you know anything about the history of natural health or holistic health, but it was totally the
norm a couple hundred years ago. Even in America, it was totally the norm until, um, Rockefeller
injected a bunch of funding into Western medicine to further the research, further the development. And I
don't know how long ago that was like over a hundred years ago, I think. But once that happened, what
we now know as Western medicine started to dominate everything else. And so all we're doing right now
with the.
Speaker 1
[00.49.33]
The, uh, changing climate of of how we see health is we're just shifting back to old ways. And it's not
that things that are old are outdated or worse, it's just that maybe we're just realizing that we were right
before and we're going back to it.
Speaker 2
[00.49.52]
Yeah, it's like a rediscovery.
Speaker 1
[00.49.55]
Yeah, a rediscovery, back to our roots. One last question for you, Lily. If you were to change one thing
about how people approach health and wellness, what would it be? I would want people to approach it
with grace and with a real care for themselves. I, I see a lot of people approaching, whether it's fitness or,
you know, dieting because they'll go the dieting route, almost like they're angry with themselves and with
their body, and they're trying to punish it, to fix it.
Speaker 2
[00.50.35]
And I would love for people to come into it more, as you know, with care. Like, I'm doing this because
again, coming back to that love, like I'm doing this to show myself love, not to punish myself. You know,
I'm not running on the treadmill so I can earn my dinner. You know, I'm. I'm nourishing my body, and
I'm. I'm just coming to it from a place of, like, just love and grace towards self.
Speaker 1
[00.51.01]
love.
You can't heal a body that you don't love. Yeah. And I'd say a mind to. You have to start with that self-Speaker 2
[00.51.09]
Absolutely.
Speaker 1
[00.51.11]
Where can people find you if they want to find you to maybe work with you?
Speaker 2
[00.51.16]
Yeah. I'm pretty easy to find. I'm lily. Rachel's on the different platforms and then relearn relationships.
Com is my website, so that's where I have some longer form content and some free resources. So if you
want to find me, that's the best place to go.
Speaker 1
[00.51.33]
And it's Lily.
Speaker 2
[00.51.35]
Yes, Lily. Rachel's okay. Awesome. Thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a
review that really helps me out. And also subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Real Food Mental Health is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The information
presented on this podcast is not intended to replace any medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. While I
am a health care provider, I am not your provider. Always seek the advice of an appropriate health care
practitioner with any personal questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard
professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
Reliance on information provided by this podcast is at your own risk.