014: Genetics, Epigenetics, and Mental Health, with Evelyn Higgins, MD
Speaker 1
[00.00.00]
Welcome back to Real Food Mental Health with Cody Cox. Today's guest is Doctor Evelyn Higgins,
who is a globally recognized authority in health and wellness. She's the founder of Wired Bio Health and
holds distinguished credentials as a diplomate of the American College of Addiction and Compulsive
Disorders, a diplomate of the American Board of Disability Analysts specializing in pain management,
and a certified addiction ologist. Throughout her illustrious career, Doctor Higgins has advised the US
Surgeon General, served as a team doctor for the 1996 Olympic Games, and had the honor of being an
Olympic torch bearer. In 2021, she was named one of Modern Healthcare's Top 25 innovators in Health
Care. With over 35 years of clinical practice and consulting, Doctor Higgins has spent more than 17
years advancing the science of health optimization, wellness and recovery, with a particular focus on
behavioral wellness. She's the author of The Doctor Higgins Guide to Health and Wellness and the
Mystery of Happiness. As a keynote speaker at the 2020 for Addiction Studies Institute conference at
Ohio State Medical Center, a TEDx speaker and a panelist at prominent international events including the
2022 International Society of Substance Use Professionals annual conference in Abu Dhabi. Doctor
Higgins is a leading voice in the convergence of epigenetics, neuroscience and holistic health. Before we
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for all the details and to register today. Don't wait. Your path to vibrant health starts now. Welcome to
the Real Food Mental Health podcast, where we explore the powerful connection between mental and
physical health. My name is Cody Cox, a holistic nutritional psychotherapist, and I'm here to guide you
on a journey to true wellness. Mind, body and spirit. If you're tired of quick fixes and want real solutions
that address the root cause, you're in the right place. Let's get started on your path to lasting wellness.
Welcome back to Real Food Mental Health with Cody Cox. Today we have Evelyn Higgins. Welcome,
Evelyn.
Speaker 2
[00.02.59]
Thank you Cody. My pleasure to be here with you.
Speaker 1
[00.03.02]
So tell us a little bit about your story and what you do.
Speaker 2
[00.03.05]
Sure. Sure. So, um, kind of the what I do part, and then I'll go to the why I do what I do. Um, we have a
patented lab panel that looks at biomarkers related to addiction, mental health and as well as overall
wellness. But how that even all happened is the part of the story that's both professional as well as
personal. Um, some been in practice and, um, integrative pain medicine for 35, six years now, I think.
And um, I was seeing people really not getting the results that they should have been getting. And I saw
people moving towards dependency on pain medications without getting the results that were intended
for those pain medications. But I was in a rural setting, so I thought, you know, maybe there's just not as
many tools available in the area after that, some 20 years later, I'm in an urban area, but I'm seeing the
exact same pattern. I am seeing people now moving though from dependency towards addiction, and I'mseeing the random. Try this, try that approach and not getting the intended results. That was my
professional side personally. I married a man who was an alcoholic who really had several addictions.
And a year after our daughter was born, found out that he was adopted and knew nothing of his health
history whatsoever. So now, seeing these behavioral manifestations in him having a child as a parent, I'm
like, whoa, what do I need to be looking out for? What do I need to be proactive about? As a parent,
that's your job, you know? So, um, I really started doing a lot more, um, got a terminal degree in
addiction and, um, compulsive disorders and was trying to learn everything I possibly could about.
Genetics, as they're related to addiction, mental health, because typically the percentage is much greater
of the impact that genetics have when it comes to mental health. Over 50%. And what was available to
look at those things? You know, this 20 years ago was really only okay, started being able to measure
brain chemicals, neurotransmitters, things like serotonin and dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine,
phenylalanine, glutamate, ABA. You know, the whole the whole shebang. But then it was only in like 12
tail end of 2015 that the, um, became available to look at what we call SNPs or promises will be as
science as we get here. Single nucleotide polymorphisms and a polymorphism is simply an error or a
variant in someone's genetic coding. So being able to look at that says wow. After we we mapped out the
human genome 2003. Now we can actually use this information to help an individual in their life. So
literally we can get a blueprint of what someone's DNA is your DNA right. Here's your cards. Play them
out. This is who you are. Absolutely. But to me, Cody, and maybe I'm partial here, but the most exciting
part of science is epigenetics, because we now know we can change the outcome by the environment of
how those genes play out. That's huge. Huge in knowing that these genes can be turned on, can be turned
off. The expression can change. Now this gives the power back to us. Right? Here's your cards that you
are born with. You have nothing to do with that. But we now know if we create environmentally from
everything you know, that means who we hang out with, what we put into our bodies, right? What toxins
are around us? The stresses that we put ourselves into, the stressful conditions, all that becomes our
environment. We can change the outcome. Huge huge huge. And to me, that's what I want everyone to be
able to hear and walk away with. Like, wow, you know what? Maybe I wasn't great, dealt the greatest
hand, but that expression of that hand can change.
Speaker 1
[00.07.35]
Yes, I love epigenetics too. And I, as you were talking, I was thinking about just my experience in
graduate school. We weren't taught about genetics at all or or their role in mental health. And I would
even think that most therapists would say that it's out of scope of practice for therapists. And I would
argue to the contrary, I think this is a very important component to the mental health of our patients. So
you mentioned the SNPs or the polymorphisms. How do you determine whether somebody has one of
these?
Speaker 2
[00.08.08]
Sure. So the lab test is a buccal swab cheek swab. Right. And we look at with our panel, we look at 85
different biomarkers in many different areas of one's health from the genes themselves to um, influence
inflammation genes, inflammatory genes, autoimmune genes, um, detoxification genes, something called
autophagy. We've known about autophagy for a hundred years, but it was only in, I think, 2016 that a
Japanese physician won the Nobel Prize for understanding the intercellular relationship of autophagy. It's
kind of like the garbage man of your cells. Every day, cells die off. That's normal. They're supposed to.
Every day mitochondria die off. Normal. Supposed to. But we have to have a way to get rid of that if we
don't. The garbage just. Adds up in our body and it's going to affect all the other cells around it. The
analogy I use is, you know what, if you went on vacation and you forgot to take your garbage out for a
week? When you come home, your place is going to smell right and it may even affect your carpet, may
even affect your furniture, your clothes. Right? So this is the same thing that's happening in your body.
So we look at autophagy. We look at mitochondria how our body makes energy in the, in the um
psychotherapy area. You know if someone said to you I would imagine Cody like just not feeling the
way I used to feel kind of depressed, actually. I don't know if that's the word. Don't feel like going
watching my kids games or going out and having fun, you know, just kind of sitting on the couch. Well,is that because our levels of serotonin or dopamine or epinephrine or norepinephrine that can all show up
as clinically depression? Or is it that our mitochondria isn't making energy? And that gives us that feeling
of, I could care less and I want to sit on the couch. Right. So we have so much validation through the
science of it to say, here's what we need to work on, here's what we need to target to then do the heavy
lifting that you do. As a therapist of okay, let's let's look at the behaviors and how are we going to deal
with those. But to address to your point of you think that the physiology does play a role. I couldn't agree
with you more. It's all of it. You know, we're we're biopsychosocial creatures. It's all of it. I was just
going to ask if you're familiar with the biopsychosocial model of therapy. Sounds like you are. And I feel
like I say this a lot, but my approach is more of an emphasis on the bio part of the biopsychosocial, where
in conventional graduate school, for therapists at least, we tend to focus more on the psychosocial, which
isn't bad, it's just not all of the picture. Right. And so as we focus more on the bio part, we we do the
testing to determine whether or not we have these, these polymorphisms or um, kind of assess what our
epigenetics are looking like. We can help address that bio piece that is so often missed in conventional
therapy. Right. And so I was doing a little bit of research on the work that you do. And I know you've
been on many podcasts. You've written several books.
Speaker 1
[00.11.36]
Tell us, what is the prescription for life?
Speaker 2
[00.11.40]
Ah, okay. See, now we're getting into my sweet spot, Cody. That's the stuff that I like. It's looking at. It's
looking at what I call the four pillars of health our physical health, our emotional health, our intellectual
health, as well as our spiritual health. And they all kind of build on each other and having the physical
health as a first component, because that's, believe it or not, really, the most direct place we can change.
It's a plug and play situation of if you're not, let's just use really basic examples. If you're sleeping three
hours a night, you're going to wind up sick telling you that flat out. You know, it's it's how long it takes
for you to get there, right? If you have a horrible diet and you think mac and cheese is a vegetable, right,
you're going to wind up sick. How long does it take us to get there? Um, and under the physical pillar of
health two would be looking at our genetic makeup. We all have strengths. We all have weaknesses.
Some people think they have no weaknesses. Right? We all do. It's part of the human condition, but it's
identifying what those are. And then what those can do to you is what matters. So physical health, if we
don't have our physical health. We won't have optimal emotional health. It's not going to happen. We
have to have the basics there to then build upon our emotional health, the physical, the the healthy. You
are in your physical physiology. The healthier opportunity you have to be emotionally and mentally
healthy then intellectually. And I'm not talking about, you know, an IQ score. I'm talking about someone
who's healthy is more apt to be curious, more apt to be creative, more apt to take that daily walk outside
in nature with wonderment. And all of those things are so healthy for us, you know? And then we get to
the last pillar, the spiritual pillar. If you don't have all of those components in place, you have no idea of
what we're talking about and don't even care about getting to that place because you don't think any of
that even even matters to you. You think you are the beginning. In the end, the Alpha and the Omega
standing there looking in the mirror. And that's all there is to life. And you're missing out on such a large
part of life when you. That's all you see. So all of these things build on each other, and it really is exciting
for me to see people walk through the different parts of their health and, and get so much more out of
life. To me, life is a gift that we've been given, and so often you see people not realize it's a gift or not
live it as if it's a gift until it's no longer there. And there is now the timetable is, is is much closer to the
end of it. And all of a sudden it's like, wow, I never really saw what I was given. Every day, every day
you wake up with the opportunity to hit reboot. Right. Start all over and let's go for it. What am I going to
pack into this day? Whether it's packing in, relaxing, giving yourself that freedom, or I want to get these
things done and accomplish these, whatever that is. So that's that's really and that's when we, you know,
you get into the discussing of what's important to an individual, um, all the different aspects of it, but
really it's those simplicities of the four pillars of health that all build on each other. And that physical
aspect of it has to be the foundation of everything. And it's actually the easiest to make the changes to ifyou want to put in the work and follow. Yeah. And it does take a lot of work. And that's that's the issue
that I run into with a lot of people. And I tend to see a lot of university students. So part of the part of it is
just the social aspect of their lifestyle. Part of it is their budget. They don't have much of a budget for
groceries. Yeah, they typically do have access to like a gym. They can go and exercise, but that's mostly
it. And so I and I love to you mentioned in one of the pillars is the spiritual pillar. And that was one thing
that was not really talked about in graduate school to when I was training to become a therapist. And in
fact, I was thinking, I've been practicing for many years, and only once have I ever come across the
training that was about spirituality in mental health.
Speaker 1
[00.16.15]
And. And so it's not something that's talked about enough.
Speaker 2
[00.16.21]
And I think Cody and I don't know if you agree or disagree with this, but I think because, because a lot of
people never even get to that place, that point of let's have that conversation. Um, that it doesn't it's not
something on their radar because they're there. I mean, how many people live their lives just on the
Merry-Go-Round? Right. So it's not even on their radar of this, this whole other aspect of life that I
haven't even begun to touch yet.
Speaker 1
[00.16.52]
Yeah. And I was thinking about I mentioned how I work with university students. They're so busy, and
the rest of us are too. I mean, let's be honest, we're so busy. And maybe that's why we have such a hard
time with that spiritual pillar.
Speaker 2
[00.17.07]
Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1
[00.17.08]
would, because as we focus, especially on the money aspect of things, we've got mortgages, we've got
rent, we've got other bills to pay, which means we have to have our full time jobs, sometimes even more
than a full time job to pay those bills, which leaves very little room for spirituality. Right? But then
coming back to the bio side of the biopsychosocial, which I'm kind of inclined to say. Biopsychosocial
spiritual. Coming back to the biocide, if you were to. Just give general advice to just a broad audience,
what would be the most important thing to address that bio part of the biopsychosocial?
Speaker 2
[00.17.48]
Um, you know, I guess even from teaming up with a lot of students who are your patients would be the
attainable things that don't have to cost a whole lot of money, which are the basics, like sleep.
Fundamental, fundamental to life, um, you know, used in warfare and isolation and and not allowing
someone to sleep for a reason. Because eventually it'll kill them, you know, um, the, you know, we're
we're supposedly more connected than ever before or have the opportunity to be more connected than
ever before. However, we are seeing loneliness as an epidemic has human beings. We're not meant to
live in isolation, and you could be living in isolation, yet be doing things where you see other peopleevery day and interact with them, however still extremely lonely. So those like basics, um, moving your
body every day. We have to. We have to move our bodies every day. And not just to keep our joints
healthy and able to move, but because that helps our mental state. You know, that's a that's a free
drugstore. And our bodies to start making these, these, um, chemicals, these endorphins of serotonin raise
our dopamine raise. That's a drugstore, you know, and it doesn't have to cost us anything. So it's even
possible without having to spend a lot of money to say, what are the basics? And am I doing checking the
box on the basics or not? Right. Great starting place, really. What I call the honesty inventory. I'm not
your teacher. I'm not your principal. I'm not your dean. You don't have to tell me how you live your life
and it's just not working. Be honest to yourself. Are you really cognizant of those things? And then are
you doing everything to help you?
Speaker 1
[00.19.46]
I think we all have a general idea of how to be healthy, but we're not really following it.
Speaker 2
[00.19.52]
Correct. And I was thinking like, I mean, we're we're all taught various principles like, don't eat sugar. I
think we can all agree that sugar is bad for us. Right? Um, or certain other things, particularly processed
foods. But are we taught the right things? I think in most cases, no, we're not taught the right things. But
then also it doesn't really. Stay with us as we get older because we get distracted. Like I said, with just
our everyday financial stresses, responsibilities, whatever it is. If we can just get on that, that healthy
lifestyle and stay on it, we're going to be so much better off because we're addressing that bio side of
things. Absolutely. And in my training, I'm also a certified nutritionist. My training is a very foundational
approach, so not so much on the functional side of things, although we did allude to that a little bit in the
training. And but the foundations are all about addressing those, those basic lifestyle factors, the nutrient
dense diet, the sleep, the stress, the blood sugar regulation, digestion. So just these simple things and I
mean, yeah, there's some deep science that go into a couple of those, but some simple lifestyle habits can
make a huge, huge difference. And if you're listening to this podcast, it can be as simple as just making
one change a day. Yes.
Speaker 1
[00.21.21]
that. Yeah,
So and I've heard it said before, maybe it's just you're you're changing by 1% at a time or even less than
Speaker 2
[00.21.28]
but.
Speaker 1
[00.21.30]
Practice makes progress. Not perfect. So. So all we care about is making that
Speaker 2
[00.21.34]
progress. Absolutely. And I would agree with you. I tell people when they're trying to make new goals,
let's say it's with food. You know first off I'm like eat the rainbow. The more, you know, dense the food,
the more variation of the colors, the more nutrients you're going to get out of those foods. But if youreally never eat fruits or vegetables and you say, you know, I'm going to show her, I'm going to load up
my plate, you're not going to be doing that a week later. I'm like, just add one. Add one and really be
mindful of that and taste it and then observe. Did I feel anything different in my body and the way my
body and my mind was able to live out that day? You know, if you start changing your diet in a much
healthier way with better nutrients, you're going to feel different physically, emotionally, you are going to
feel different. And then that's up to you. It's like, whoa. Some people become a little bit like, I don't know
about feeling this good. Like, what's up with this? You know, and backslide a little bit, but it's one step
forward, two steps back. As long as you keep moving in the right direction, you can change those habits.
Not easily. It's its work, but they are attainable to have changes positively. Now,
Speaker 1
[00.22.53]
what would you say to the person who is following those things? Maybe they're eating a whole food diet
very clean. They have a fairly clean environment. I mean, none of us are perfect at that because we can't
totally control our environment. But what would you say to the person who's following those principles
and they're still still not feeling better? Is that coming back to the genetic testing and the the things that
you were mentioning
Speaker 2
[00.23.17]
earlier? Yes, absolutely. Cody, great point. You bring up, um, the term methylation way overused on the
internet. If you looked it up, it would be like the Mthfr gene. You know, if you have a problem, you're
like, forget it. You might as well just throw in your chips now, you know. So over I call Doctor Google.
You know, better than half of the information isn't even correct. But we look at methylation and people
say, well, I did a 20:03 a.m. test. I call that a recreational test. What we do is a clinical test. They look at
one gene for methylation, the mthfr. We're looking at 14 genes having to do with methylation. Why so
many? Because if we were just it's a very complex process methylation. But if I just gave an umbrella of
what it does three main things. It optimizes your DNA. So that alone you need to be methylated. It also
detoxifies your body. As you said, a lot of things aren't within our control of what's out there that we're
assaulted with every day. But if our body is able to detoxify, that's a normal process for our body every
single day, with our liver doing the hardest amount of work between 2 and 4 a.m., processing all these
toxins, getting rid of them. And then last of these three things that methylation does optimizes our DNA
detoxifies it allows us to absorb nutrients. So you could be eating the healthiest diet ever, but if you're not
absorbing the nutrients, you're not getting what you need for these biochemical pathways to work most
efficiently. If you're not absorbing, we're going to wind up with a lot of health problems. So that would
be a genetic situation of let's look at these biomarkers and see within this category if you're even
absorbing.
Speaker 1
[00.25.05]
So if a person is having trouble methylated what would you have them do
Speaker 2
[00.25.11]
to improve. So it would depend on like we're looking at the complete picture here with more than just the
one methylation gene. It would show me where we find these variants. Does it have to do with
methionine. Does it have to do with glutamine? Does it have to do with L methyl folate? Does it have to
do with homocysteine? I'm going to be able to pinpoint within the biochemical pathways where we're
having the problem and then say, here's what we're going to do to optimize that. Okay.
Speaker 1[00.25.39]
And how about absorption? Like what would a person need to do to improve absorption.
Speaker 2
[00.25.44]
So it would be an overall. Are you methylated or not. Where are the problematic areas and address those
problematic areas. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.25.54]
So I did mention sugar earlier which is a really really common addiction. And I think there are a lot of us
who we eat it every day. Um, and I mean, there are other things too that are super common, like I would
say caffeine as well. But as we get into, um, proper methylation, proper absorption, how does this play a
role into addictions?
Speaker 2
[00.26.20]
Actually, um, sugar is one of the a sugar addiction is almost like a, a beeping red light of what else is
happening in your body. What biochemical pathways are not working efficiently? Because so often what
goes hand in hand is that sugar addiction. An addiction itself being other substances that might be your
substance of addiction, but often hand in hand with alcoholism, often hand in hand with heroin use.
Abuse is sugar because the biochemical pathways are so similar. Your body is trying to get that fixed.
Literally that fix.
Speaker 1
[00.27.06]
You're trying to get that dopamine spike. And then over time, you build a tolerance for it where you're
getting less and less of a spike, which perpetuates that addiction. Right. And we also have process
addictions. So I work a lot with pornography addiction, for example. And a common thing that I've
noticed for pretty much all addictions is that it's a form of self-medication.
Speaker 2
[00.27.29]
Correct. Yep.
Speaker 1
[00.27.30]
Totally agree. And so what would you say the root cause of addiction actually is?
Speaker 2
[00.27.36]
So it's not one gene. This is the porn gene. This is the alcohol gene. This is the. You know, it's not that.
It's all of the information together. And there are specific neurotoxic genes that would have to do with
addiction itself in a broad base. But when we're talking about example of why is it porn for somebody
versus alcohol. It is seeking that self-medication and reaching outside of yourself, probably not even
knowing that that's the beginning of it. It's just like, whoa, I did that and I felt so much better. That
becomes the addiction. And then for a lot of people, there's addiction swapping, like, okay, I'm not using
alcohol right now, but I'm using XYZ. Put in another one because you're still trying to change the restingstate of this. Um, right. So it's all of these different pieces together, but I totally agree that it's the
everybody in our life. We've all got the big tease, the little tease. What did that do to you? Right. The
traumas. What did that do to you then on top of that, our genetic makeup. What's our genetic makeup?
Do we have weaknesses? And perhaps the Mao or the Mao gene, the monoamine oxidase A, monoamine
oxidase B, which has clinical correlations of addiction, of impulse control, of easier to have aggression.
So depending on what your makeup is. Now life happens and it happens to all of us. Something happens
you're trying not to feel. You start reaching outside of yourself, not even knowing. I'm self-medicating
right now, but boy, when I do this, I feel better. So this is now my go to for life.
Speaker 1
[00.29.27]
So we're talking about genetics and addiction. Intergenerational trauma comes to mind. And I did here a
couple years ago that it's like 6% of our health is actually genetic, where the other 94% is actually the
epigenetics that we've been talking about. But then I'm always still wondering about that 6%. Could that
be part of the intergenerational trauma that could lead a person to having a predisposition for an
addiction, such as whether it's sugar or caffeine, video games, pornography, etc.?
Speaker 2
[00.30.02]
Yeah, yeah, I would say yes to your point. I would say yes, that intergenerational trauma, it is passed on,
you know, and then you look at the habits that we grow up with in our families. And the go tos that
create those habits. What are you trying not to feel in your family unit? Right. That then gets passed on as
here's how you deal with this, or here's how you deal with that, not even knowing that that's what people
are doing. No one would want to pass on to their loved one something that's not going to be beneficial or
hurt them, but and not even knowing how these habits on top of physiology gets passed down. Like when
people are like, well, you know, my my dad died at 55, you know, I'm just going to live it out because
I'm not going to have a long life. No, no, we can change these things from habits. That's one part of it.
But our physiology now we know can change. So if we want to, everything is there to end up differently.
Speaker 1
[00.31.10]
Yeah. And I mean, there are certain things we can do before conception such as like if you're if you're
just eating a whole food diet at least six months before conception, that can make a world of difference
for that child. Right. But then what happens if that that child is already born? Or maybe the there's a
mother who's listening right now who's currently pregnant and didn't know this stuff before. What can
they do to improve that?
Speaker 2
[00.31.37]
Start with where you're at. You know you hear this today. Today is the day that you make changes and
you start eating a whole food dense, rich diet for you and for the fetus that you're bringing into the world.
It's a game changer. Everything. You know, Cody, one of the things that I always say is there's not a
single cell in our body made up of a pharmaceutical. I'm not anti pharmaceutical, but there's not a single
cell in our body made up of pharmaceutical. Yet when we have a problem, that's our go to. What
pharmaceutical should I take? Every biochemical pathway in your body is made up of enzymes,
vitamins, minerals, all of these things that make up our cells. So you have the opportunity today. You
heard Cody's podcast. Do you hear it today? And you say, okay, today is the day I'm going to make a
change and you start implementing those things. I guarantee you your outcome will be so much better for
you, for the baby, and for the overall being. And then what you're teaching, what you're teaching that can
then be taught to the next generation and the next generation.Speaker 1
[00.32.50]
And I often have to wonder. We're talking about intergenerational trauma and how we can prevent that
biologically, but there could be a spiritual component to that too. And that. And that's where it's like, how
do we address it? And I'm it's just it's taking small steps and it's like you were saying, Evelyn, just start
now. Yes. Start now with what you know and just build upon that. Yeah.
Speaker 2
[00.33.16]
And and build upon making you the only thing you can control is you. So make you the best you. And
then everything in your periphery has an opportunity to be a better whatever. Fill in the blank. Right. As
the result of you bringing the best you to show up every day. That's how these things can change. That's
how spirituality comes on your radar as something that's like, wow, this is actually real and nobody talks
about it. Living a different life is possible. Does it mean it's easy? No. It's work. It's work. You have to do
it. You know, it's more than reading about it, but it's doable. I mean, even one of the most simple pieces
that I talk about with in spirituality is gratitude. And gratitude is a muscle. Just like you. Go to the gym
for every day to make your body work as well as it can. Gratitude is an opportunity to make your life the
best it can be every single day. But it takes practice of doing it. I mean, I. I journal every day. Sometimes
I'm human like everybody else, and I'm like, I fall off the bandwagon of my journaling. I'm like, you
know, man, life's just been a little bit harder these last couple of days a week. And I'm like, mm. I
stopped journaling. What is that doing? It is creating a mindset of positivity. The smallest thing that you
can find. What are you grateful for? If it's nothing other than I got out of bed, and some people think
that's a loss instead of a win, right? If that's all you can say for the day, then that's it. But it's a habit of
looking at what good things are happening instead of what bad things are happening. And that snowballs
to more good things and more good things. And then it's like all of a sudden, gosh, everything's working
out right for me. Why? Because that's your mindset of what you believe is possible and obtainable in this
world. That's not always easy to be a part of.
Speaker 1
[00.35.20]
Yeah, and I love that you brought up gratitude journaling, because it can be as simple as just listing three
things a day that you're grateful for. I think a lot of the time I will recommend that to people. Just say go
home. Write down things that you're grateful for, and they just seem so overwhelmed by that idea. It
doesn't have to be long paragraph form. I mean, it can be if you want it to be, but it could just be writing
three words. Exactly, and then closing your journal for the day and waiting until the next day to add more
to it. Yep. What would you say to the person who. Maybe they were born with fetal alcohol syndrome or
some other substance was in their system during development
Speaker 2
[00.36.04]
that it can change. It can change, in fact. Um, I presented to in Abu Dhabi two years ago to the
International Society of Substance Use Professionals, a case where we had a child who when we saw her,
she was four born neonatal neonatal alcohol syndrome, born with alcohol, born with meth in her body,
born with cocaine in her body. Um. Almost didn't make it coded three times in the hospital. You know,
everything imaginable to fighting to have a life for this, for this kid. She was in the foster system.
Parents, um, reached out to us. Long story short, we did the labs. They started doing everything. Her. She
was. They reached out to us after she was being kicked out of her third school. I believe her behavior, her
her academics were horrible. We have her records from independent third party in school of the testing
that they do every year, and where her reading went from here to here, where her math went from here to
here. So academically, a different kid as well as socially. By the end of the school year, she got the
character award for her school. This kid who was on her way to nothing but problems for the rest of her
life and not her fault, right? This is how she came into the world. Not fair. Yet this was her reality. Herparents were like, okay, we need to do this. See what what we can do to make changes. And now she's
eight years old. So you think of this child, how many people she has the opportunity to interact with in
her lifetime in a positive way, versus had she stayed the other way in a very negative way, the amount of
lives she can affect in a better way? That's that's a win for everybody.
Speaker 1
[00.38.01]
I often I come across quote unquote treatment resistant patients who maybe they're just totally
unmotivated to even make the smallest change in their life. What are some ways that you could help a
person like that? Sure. So first case I think of in our treatment resistant, um, major depressive disorder
was a woman who was in her 60s who came to us, had been on SSRIs for like over three decades. Family
genetic history. Dad, alcoholic son died by suicide. So a heavy genetic component here. And it wasn't for
lack of trying. She was on the. Try this, try that, double this, half this, move it to that one. Not because
she wasn't wanting to live a different life, just hadn't found out what to do. She came to us. We did the
labs, created a recommendations, worked with her. Um. Psychiatric nurse practitioner, and her
psychiatrist found a hybrid of what she needed. What we were missing with her lab tests and her
medications, and finding the dosing when we're doing it all together. That was good. She wound up. I
mean, she was a sad sack. It was. It was difficult. You know, when some people are just, you know, we're
all humans and we're trying to help, but you're sucking the life out of me kind of thing, like. And by the
end, she. I joked with her because she. She met a man in her support group after her son had died by
suicide. They wound up getting engaged, married. And I said, I want to be your bridesmaid. Like joking
around. But her, her everything in her demeanor had changed. This is someone who, when I talk to her, I
couldn't find a smile anywhere. And she was. She was enjoying being alive. That's.
Speaker 2
[00.40.03]
That's a game changer.
Speaker 1
[00.40.05]
That's what I hope everybody can find. Yes. And and yeah, it takes work. It's like you were saying
earlier, we can't really. We can't outsource our health. We have to do it ourselves. And yeah, sometimes it
does make sense to hire a practitioner to kind of walk us through what to do, but we have to be the one
who does it.
Speaker 2
[00.40.24]
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1
[00.40.26]
And it can be challenging. Um, as we we treat children because the parents have to be in on that, too.
Sure,
Speaker 2
[00.40.34]
sure.
Speaker 1[00.40.35]
Yeah. But as long as they are, we can we can help them.
Speaker 2
[00.40.39]
Yeah. In profound ways. It made me think of, um, we had a grant with Recovery High Schools in
Florida. So where kids that just can't go to a traditional high school because of their addiction history and
not an environment that they need to be in. So they have these recovery high schools we did with all of
their students this really big project. And a big part of it was working with the families to, you know, not
just they we obviously we did the labs. That was the center point of what we're doing. Let's look at the
genetic part of this. Let's create a plan unique to you. You know, over 8 billion people in the world with 8
billion different sets of DNA. Yet we're treating everybody exactly the same and wondering why we're
not getting the results. But then it was working with the families, too, because it's all of it. That's this kids
environment. They are still at the age where they're living at home under a roof. And if that's not a pretty
place, are you going to be looking to feel different every day?
Speaker 1
[00.41.43]
I became a therapist with the intention of going into marriage and family therapy. I tried that a few times
and I was like, no, I think I like working with the individual who has autonomy over themselves. But
there are there are clinicians who have a gift and they they can work with an entire family at a time. And
I do think that's an important part of the treatment, too, because it's like you said, it's part of the
environment of the child. But I would also say it's part of the social health of the child.
Speaker 2
[00.42.15]
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 1
[00.42.19]
So I watched a video of you on, I think it was on your one of your websites, and you said it was
something like 54% of America has depression and or anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. But but those are just
diagnosed cases, right. And I think the statistics are often very skewed because they're going off of what's
officially diagnosed, usually reported by insurance companies. Right. There are so many more cases that
are unreported, even those who are getting treatment and not using their insurance. Yep. Might still be
diagnosed, but it's not reported.
Speaker 2
[00.42.53]
Not reported.
Speaker 1
[00.42.55]
So if you were to just throw out a number for all of the actual cases diagnosed undiagnosed, what would
you say? That is? As far as people in America with depression and anxiety,
Speaker 2
[00.43.09]75% north of that. And most of us, it's most of us. And interacting with people every day and seeing the
sometimes difficulty of doing that. It's no shock. You know that we just use the number 75% every three
out of four is like, oh wow. But that one was the greatest interaction and that's enough for me to keep on
going. Right? Yeah. That's diagnosed. So when we are looking at all the undiagnosed cases, as you say,
Cody, and the ones that aren't reported to insurance companies, they're, you know, they're for whatever
reason, off the grid there it is astounding. Astounding. And this isn't me coming up with this. This is a
Kaiser study post-pandemic of where that data came from. And I say it's very real. I mean, very real.
Speaker 1
[00.44.09]
And imagine how that affects everybody's behavior. Sure. So I have a background in sociology. So I'm
really interested in like the statistics and the social aspects of these things. And I also studied criminology
a little bit. I'm not sure what the statistics are on crime rates currently, but I would imagine things are
getting worse. Do you know anything about that?
Speaker 2
[00.44.32]
I don't know the data. Just my lived experience. I would say for sure there's a lot more crime people that
probably would have even never thought about that idea crossing their mind today, because there's there's
just so much going on that everybody's just trying to get through it.
Speaker 1
[00.44.51]
Yeah. And it's like we were saying earlier, everybody's just so busy. We've got so many responsibilities
and we can't really slow down to take care of our health. But we need to,
Speaker 2
[00.45.02]
we need to because without that we have nothing.
Speaker 1
[00.45.06]
We need we need to make the time to go exercise on a regular basis. We need to make the time to make a
healthy meal. And if even if we're not making it ourselves, there's there are ways to get it, to get that that
nourishment that our body needs from you're hiring somebody else to do it, or you're sharing the
responsibility with your roommates or family members. There are different ways of getting the
nourishment that you need,
Speaker 2
[00.45.34]
whether
Speaker 1
[00.45.34]
biologically, socially, spiritually, genetically.
Speaker 2[00.45.39]
Yeah, it has to become a priority, just like everything else that you feel is non-negotiable in your life,
your studies or your job or your whatever. It has to become that important. And we all, we all could say,
yeah, but you don't get my life. I don't have the time and it's all justified. I get it, it's prioritizing.
Speaker 1
[00.45.58]
So as we come up on the end of this episode, I'm going to ask you just one question. If there's one thing
that you would suggest people do to change their health and wellness, what would it be?
Speaker 2
[00.46.15]
I'd say to really start being honest with yourself of where you are when it comes to your health. Because
health is more than simply the absence of disease. That concept is like what? And we're not healthy one
day and sick the next. It's all the living that we're doing in between there. That brings us to either end of
that spectrum. So to really do an honesty inventory and say, where am I in my health, I think is a great
beginning for you after hearing this podcast to say, let me be honest with myself, where am I? Of all the
things I just talked about.
Speaker 1
[00.46.53]
That's a good point. Health is more than the absence of disease. Because. Because when we think of it as
the absence of disease, it's almost implying inaction.
Speaker 2
[00.47.01]
Right. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.47.03]
And so instead, we want to actually take that action to do the things that we know will contribute to our
overall health. Yeah. One last thing. Where can people find you if they want to work with you?
Speaker 2
[00.47.14]
Sure. Um. Wired bio health. So go to the website wired bio health. Wired for addiction with the word for
addiction. Peruse the websites. Even do a complimentary 15 minute consultation. Let myself, one of our
clinicians, know what's going on with you, and is this going to be something that benefits or point you in
a different direction? But take the action step, kind of what we're talking about here today. We can we
can think and we can overthink and and never take a step in a positive direction.
Speaker 1
[00.47.52]
Take the action. Yes. Awesome. Thank you so much Evelyn.
Speaker 2
[00.47.55]Thank you Cody, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1
[00.47.59]
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review that really helps me out and also subscribe to
the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. Real Food Mental Health is intended for informational
and entertainment purposes only. The information presented on this podcast is not intended to replace
any medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. While I am a healthcare provider, I am not your provider.
Always seek the advice of an appropriate health care practitioner with any personal questions you may
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