010: You are not Your Diagnosis, with J. Edwards Holt
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Speaker 1
[00.00.00]
Have you ever wondered if an official diagnosis might actually be causing a person harm just from the
mere label? Today's guest I'm excited to present to you. His name is J. Edwards Holt. He's an author of
many books, and his most recent one is called They Don't Define Me, which actually just came out a few
weeks ago. The book is about his personal experience with mental illness, and so we discuss his
experience with various diagnoses that he's had throughout his life. But then we also discuss a very
important topic that I don't think is discussed hardly at all. And I've noticed this in recent years as a as a
trend among especially younger generations, generation Z really seems to be embracing the idea that if
you have a diagnosis, you should take it on as part of your personal identity. And so we discuss in this
episode why that might not be such a helpful thing. And we also discuss how to back off of that and kind
of separate a diagnosis from your personal identity and make it work for you, rather than against you.
Welcome to the Real Food Mental Health podcast, where we explore the powerful connection between
mental and physical health. My name is Cody Cox, a holistic nutritional psychotherapist, and I'm here to
guide you on a journey to true wellness mind, body, and spirit. If you're tired of quick fixes and want real
solutions that address the root cause, you're in the right place. Let's get started on your path to lasting
wellness. Today's guest is J. Edwards Holt, who is a bestselling American author renowned for his
fantasy novels and children's books, transitioning from education to writing. Holt has captivated
audiences with his Barren World trilogy and the award winning The Jealous Little Ogre. As an ordained
minister, he integrates his Christian faith into his works, promoting messages of hope. One of his most
celebrated stories, The Crossing A Wayfarers Chronicles, continues to enchant readers with its rich
storytelling. Committed to community service, Colt's contributions extend beyond literature, impacting
lives through advocacy and service. Welcome, Jay.
Speaker 2
[00.02.22]
Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1
[00.02.23]
So you recently wrote a book or recently published a book. It's called They Don't Define Me The Story of
a Lifelong Battle with Mental Illness and How to Rise above Your Diagnosis. Give us a little synopsis of
what the book is about, how you came to writing it. Kind of the background of it. Yeah. So this, um,
book is mostly about a lot of it's about, you know, uh, my childhood just growing up with, uh, you know,
not just one mental illness, but several mental illnesses and, um, you know, it talks a lot about the
challenges and, and the feelings of isolation and loneliness and things like that. And, um, you know,
aside from, uh, talking about all the isolation and stuff, it also offers waves for people that may be going
through the same thing to, uh, to cope, you know, different strategies that have, um, a lot of strategies
that I've learned taking notes in therapy over the years and, um, things that I've kind of figured out on my
own a little bit. And, um, you know, most importantly, the book offers a message of hope to people that
are struggling, um, as well as several different resources for to reach out to people. Um, for anybody.
That's. Going through this kind of thing. Um, as far as the inspiration for the book. Um, I talk about my
mom some in there, how she, you know, helped me with my struggles and stuff. And she always, uh,
wanted me to write a book, um, about the stuff, some of the stuff we went through. Um, and so just, uh, I
think it was late last year. I decided to go ahead and and, uh, start writing some of it down and get it into
a book. And, um, I actually didn't tell her I was working on it, and I surprised her with it as a Christmas
gift, so. Oh, that was
Speaker 2[00.04.14]
a lot of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.04.15]
Yeah. And I think there's a lot of value in sharing your story. So if you've heard previous episodes, I kind
of invite people to share their story, which is pretty much what you do in your book where readers or
listeners to a podcast really can connect with that, and it makes them a little bit more captivated in a in
such a way that it inspires them to start improving in various ways for your story. I got the understanding
that you started to have symptoms around the age of ten, am I right? So it was in childhood. And it
started with Tourette's. Or did it start with something else?
Speaker 2
[00.04.55]
Yeah, it started with Tourette's.
Speaker 1
[00.04.57]
Things like that.
Okay. And what was that like? Like how did that affect your your ability to to be at school socially?
Speaker 2
[00.05.05]
Yeah. Um, you know, it started with just a little, uh, like a little facial tic here and there, like a little like a
wink or, you know, a wiggling of the nose, and then it, you know, got to, like, a growl or just a lot of
throat clearing. Um, really? Things that I didn't even notice that much until, um, you know, my teacher
pointed it out and then, you know, uh, me and my mom started noticing it a lot. Um, and it got
progressively worse, really, as I, um, kind of as we started being aware of it, it kind of got worse. Um,
but, yeah, I mean, it started pretty subtle, you know, something that you wouldn't really think that much
about, especially if you're doing it. You don't think that much about it. Um, but, um, you know,
somebody pointed it out for me in third grade. I was around ten years old. And, um, you know, after that,
it was like the the mental illnesses just kept piling on from there, you know?
Speaker 1
[00.06.07]
Yeah. And that's usually how it goes, especially with something like Tourette's. Tourette's is a rough
disorder to have because it affects your functioning in every, every way. So socially, physically,
mentally. Um, it can really, really bring you down. And so as, as I read the book, you said something
about feeling out of control of your body as you described your experience with Tourette's. And I
immediately thought when I read the words out of control, that sounds like anxiety. And then later on you
start talking about how you experience anxiety. So so it makes perfect sense that these disorders would
present comorbidity just with with something like Tourette's. And I don't know, the official statistics with
Tourette's. As a clinician myself, I think I've only ever seen two patients with Tourette's or a tic disorder.
Do you are you familiar with the statistics on that? Like how common is today? No, I'm
Speaker 2
[00.07.07]
not sure. You know, and I've actually not met many people myself that have it. Um, very few people I've
met that actually had it besides me. So, um, yeah. And like I said, it does lead to that feeling of of beingout of control, which essentially is where anxiety stems from. I mean, there are other things too, like
trauma, neurological, genetic things like that. Um, but kind of the core, at least the cognitive side of
anxiety is feeling out of control. Um, so Tourette's is that.
Speaker 1
[00.07.44]
Is that an ongoing issue for you, or were you able to find some kind of resolve to that?
Speaker 2
[00.07.50]
Um, it's definitely, you know, it's a daily thing for me. Um, you know, um, uh, it's not always obvious,
you know? Um, you know, people that if they know me really well or they're around me a lot, they may
notice it, but, um, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, I'm just I'm aware of and I feel it and
stuff, and, um, um, and I mentioned to in the book how kind of when I'm in certain situations, I've
developed this kind of way to hide it, I guess, like unconsciously. And um, so a lot of times, you know,
people that I meet might say, well, you don't, you know, you don't act like somebody with Tourette's or
something, um, you know, and so, um, but yeah, it's definitely it's definitely a daily battle for me. Uh, I
was hoping I would grow out of it, but I'm. I'm still waiting for that to happen. So
Speaker 1
[00.08.40]
it's interesting how we we learn to cope with these things to, for the, for the sake of fitting in socially.
Right? I mean, I think that's they call that masking in an autism context where essentially you're just
you're hiding your symptoms to save yourself from embarrassment. And in your book, you said that you
you tried to cover up the tics with like, coughing or sneezing. I think I would do the same thing, honestly.
Speaker 2
[00.09.09]
Yeah, yeah. I just, you know, I remember like, you know, the first couple times that I did a tic and
somebody made fun of me, I was like, okay, I gotta find some way to cover this up. And immediately I
just it became second nature, you know, my instinct to, to cover it up. And I've just gotten so used to it
over the years.
Speaker 1
[00.09.27]
Yeah. And we tend to do that with pretty much any kind of diagnosis. So it seems to be somewhat
normal now, or it's becoming normalized to have a diagnosis of a mental disorder, particularly
depression, anxiety, ADHD. And I kind of want to say autism. Um, but depression, anxiety and ADHD
especially are becoming more normalized. Is that a good thing or is that not such a good thing?
Speaker 2
[00.09.56]
Well, I mean, I think I think the awareness is good because, I mean, when I was growing up in the, um,
you know, 90s to early 2000, there was not a lot of awareness. And, um, you know, especially as a child,
people thought, you know, children don't have those problems and things like that. And, um, so, I mean, I
think it's it's not good that there's more of it, but I think it's good that there's more awareness so that
people won't feel isolated because, you know, a lot of times feeling isolated can, can lead to a lot worse
things. Yeah, yeah, I agree I think the the awareness is definitely good. Um, I would say having
compassion toward people who are struggling with such things is definitely an improvement. But then Ido fear as a therapist, I fear that it might become a slippery slope where we use the labels a little bit too
much. Mhm. I've actually seen people using their label as an excuse to not live their life. And so, so you
have to find a balance or a happy medium where where you're using that label as kind of a clear direction
on how to cope or how to improve, but you're not necessarily using it as a crutch or an excuse. Mhm.
Right. And so you kind of allude to that in your book where I mean the very title of the book is they don't
define me. So essentially you're referring to those diagnoses, right. Those labels. Did you find that there
was any sort of negative effect to having those labels. Or were those labels more,
Speaker 1
[00.11.35]
uh, relieving for you as far as giving you some clear direction? Um,
Speaker 2
[00.11.40]
I would say when I, when I first got the labels, there was a lot of negativity to it. You know, we would
just, um, you know, I would just have to explain to people, oh, yeah, I've got Tourette's or something,
you know? And, you know, a lot of people will look at you differently. Um, you know, especially as a
child, they would think, oh, you know, he's he's just using that as an excuse to act foolish or something
like that. Um, you know, so that was, um. You know, I think, you know, that was pretty difficult. It's
pretty difficult. Um, sometimes the labels can be difficult, but, you know, other times it's, um, it's good to
have them so that people can be aware, but, uh, some people just are too aware, I guess, at
Speaker 1
[00.12.22]
times. Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of what I was getting at, is some people are too aware to where they
hyper focus on it, and it becomes just a little too extreme to where it actually keeps them from finding
peace. So not only did you suffer from Tourette's as a child, but you developed OCD, anxiety,
depression, ADHD. Which one do you feel like came next, or did they all kind of come together?
Speaker 2
[00.12.49]
Um, let's see. So I would say Tourette's in ADHD came about the same time. And then the anxiety and
depression followed, uh, pretty pretty soon after. And then, uh, the OCD though, was only was about a
couple years later that I started really struggling with that. Um, that was one of the that was the latest one.
Um, that was the first couple were when I was about ten. And then that was when I was about 13 is when
that hit me the
Speaker 1
[00.13.16]
hardest. So it wasn't for a few years that you had obsessive compulsive disorder.
Speaker 2
[00.13.20]
Yeah. You know, looking back, looking back, I see a lot of things that I did that were, you know,
foreshadowing of that, but it wasn't severe until about age 13. I always kind of saw the OCD as, um. Just
a way to kind of maintain more control. When I felt so out of control with everything else, the OCD kind
of, uh, you know, like, oh, you do this and you'll feel relief, you know, that kind of thing. And it kind of
gives you a sense of control. That's it's not real, but it feels real. So it's I think it, uh, could have
developed as a coping mechanism. I'm thinking possibly. Yeah. OCD is an anxiety disorder. So like Isaid earlier, it does stem from that feeling out of control and obsessive compulsive disorder. It is less
common than generalized anxiety, but it still has that out of control component where we kind of develop
this, this perfectionistic mindset, and we do these things repeatedly and obsessively to get that sense of
control. Absolutely.
Speaker 1
[00.14.26]
Um, so OCD was the more recent one, but how about depression, anxiety, ADHD? How did that affect
you in your daily life?
Speaker 2
[00.14.34]
Yeah. Um, the ADHD came about with just, you know, my my teachers telling, uh, my mom that, you
know, I wasn't paying attention in class, you know, I was I would be, you know, doodling or coming up
with some kind of story or something, or looking out the window or or talking to a classmate or
something when I was supposed to be, uh, concentrating on work or something. And, um, so, you know,
we went to the pediatrician and they said, oh, it's probably, you know, some form of ADHD. Uh, so they
put me on an ADHD medication for that. Um, and, you know, it didn't work. That one didn't. It just made
my tics worse. And so, you know, that was like. We had to get off that one pretty quickly. Um, and I
mean, uh, after that, it felt like my tics just kind of stayed worse. It felt like they never went back to what
they were, so I don't know, but, um, yeah, just, you know, it presented itself as just being distracted and,
you know, unable to sit still in
Speaker 1
[00.15.34]
class. Yeah. And we see that a lot with medication where it might make things worse while making some
things better at the same time. Or maybe it just makes everything worse or everything better. It's really
kind of a it's a complex form of treatment. And I know in your book you talked about how, at least for
the Tourette's and maybe for a couple other things, it was kind of a failed treatment on your part. Right.
Mhm. And you took several medications and they didn't seem to be working. It kind of seemed like the
doctors just wanted to keep piling on more and more medications, as if that was the only solution. Yeah.
But eventually you found other ways to cope. What were the things that you found to be the most helpful
for you? Um.
Speaker 2
[00.16.21]
Let's see, there was, um, just one, uh, therapist I found that just presented everything in a different way,
and, um, just really explained everything to me. Like I'd never heard it before. And, um, this was a
therapist. I think it was once or twice a week. I would go there and they would spend, you know, at least
an hour working with me, you know, one on one. There was no rush or anything like that, you know,
and, um, you know, they explained everything to me that that I was going through and, um, you know, it
really opened things up for me. And, you know, that in combination with getting the right medication,
not too many, but the right one, you know, it it it changed my life because it, you know, it, um, you
know, things may be bad sometimes, but it was a lot worse, you
Speaker 1
[00.17.10]
know? Yeah. And that's where it's tricky, where I think doctors really struggle to find that right
combination of medications where there might be a right combination, but there are so many to choose
from and so many, only so many that they're familiar with to where it's kind of like trying to find a needle
in a haystack for some people. Right. So you found some solace through coping mechanisms as taught bya therapist, it sounds like. And and you kind of talked about like, some mindfulness practices in your
book. It sounded like some cognitive behavioral therapy type stuff. How about just changes with
lifestyle. So like diet, exercise, going outside, things like that.
Speaker 2
[00.17.53]
Yeah I definitely I exercise a lot and I stay active. Um, you know, I'm always doing something active, so
that really helps a lot. Um, with everything, I think, you know, it's a lot worse when I on a day that I can't
really get out and do anything. Um, and definitely if I. Um, you know, if I'm eating things that are not
healthy or not good, I noticed that everything's worse as well, so that's definitely beneficial.
Speaker 1
[00.18.20]
Yeah, it seems to be like there's a common denominator with all mental disorders, regardless of what
disorder it is. It's something to do with energy of the brain. And so I've been studying that a lot this year.
It's they call it metabolic psychiatry coming out of Harvard University, Stanford University, it's kind of a
kind of a growing specialization. But metabolic psychiatry is really kind of that theory that your brain is
simply not getting the energy that it needs from the diet and lifestyle that you're living. And so it is not
functioning properly in various ways. I mean, it's going to manifest in different ways according to your
genetics, your bio individuality. And so that might look like Tourette's, it might look like ADHD or
autism or something else. But just simply exercising every day can make a huge difference because it
helps to boost that blood flow to the brain. It boosts that energy so your brain can heal itself if it needs to
be healed, but also create those neural pathways that are necessary for proper functioning.
Speaker 2
[00.19.26]
Absolutely, yeah. Exercise is a lifesaver for me.
Speaker 1
[00.19.29]
Any specific exercises that you do that seem to help more than others? Um, for
Speaker 2
[00.19.34]
me, you know, walking it relieves a lot for me. Um, you know, it's therapeutic to, uh, just get out and
walk, you know, on a nice day. And, um, it gives you time to kind of gather your thoughts and, uh, relax
a little bit while also getting your heart rate up and everything. Um, or just, you know, taking the dogs for
a walk or something. Um, so, I mean, walking is my go to, um, you know, I also enjoy, uh, when I get a
chance to play something like, uh, a little bit of tennis or something, or, uh, golf or something like
Speaker 1
[00.20.08]
that. This is just my personal philosophy, but I feel like we're having more and more labels diagnoses
because we actually are, as Americans, becoming sicker. And I think it has to do with lifestyle. We are
more sedentary. We're sitting and staring at screens more. We're not really interacting with other people
as much. And all of that culminates into. Worse and worse health. And so. Something as simple as going
outside, walking the dogs. Our bodies are made for that. You mentioned in your book several different
techniques that you were using. So like reverse journaling, is that what you calledSpeaker 2
[00.20.47]
it? There's several of them that I did in there for the journaling. Um, so it would be, you know, I know
one of the techniques that I do occasionally is, um, if I'm having a no, no, no, no, here it is. If I'm calm, I
will write a letter to myself, um, to read when I'm having a panic attack and just say, you know, that, you
know, you've had this before, and I'll make sure to write it when I'm calm so that I can read it when I'm
having a panic attack and I can read something that's a letter to myself, to, you know, reassure me that
you know, that I made it through last time and I'll make it through this time. And, um, that's very helpful
because, you know, just just reading that on paper really does make a difference. I
Speaker 1
[00.21.37]
like that it's kind of like you're you're planning ahead. You're setting yourself up for success by just
making these preparations like, similar to how you might if you were to give a presentation at school.
Like, obviously you're not just going to go and do it without any preparation, right? Like you want to sit
down, get some material together, maybe do your PowerPoint if that's what you're doing, and then you're
going to be way more confident when you're up there and actually giving the presentation. Yeah, you
might still feel a little anxious, but it's going to be way better with all those preparations in place when
you're finally in that that event of anxiety than if you had no preparation. So I really like that. I've never,
never thought about that before. Journaling can be so therapeutic. There are many ways to do it. Um, but
it could be something like writing a letter to yourself. Or do you ever do journaling in the heat of the
moment to does that have you found found that to be helpful? Yeah,
Speaker 2
[00.22.36]
yeah I do, um, yeah, I'll do it. You know, at the best moments, ain't it? The worst moments too? And, um,
you know, sometimes I'll. It's challenging to do this, but I think it benefits me. You know, during a good
time, I'll go and read what I wrote during the bad time just to prove to myself that, you know, that I can
handle reading it, because there's this fear that reading it is going to make it happen again or something.
And, um, so sometimes I'll read it just to prove to myself that it doesn't necessarily make it happen again,
I love it. Yeah. So like I said, there are so many ways you can journal that would be therapeutic. And one
of my ways to that, I like to have people do. If they're willing to do it, it does take more time or more, uh,
devotion is if you're going to write a journal about, like how you're doing throughout your day or what
you're doing throughout your day, make sure you're writing more about your feelings rather than just
listing off what you did like. I mean, for example, you could say, oh, I washed my dog today, or you
could talk about this is how I'm feeling. And here's why.
Speaker 1
[00.23.47]
If you were to go back and read that like weeks or months later, what's what's going to be more
meaningful to you? Are you are you going to think that it's more meaningful to read that you washed
your dog on January 12th of 2023, or that you were going through a hard time and you overcame it?
Speaker 2
[00.24.06]
Yeah, definitely. Definitely the latter.
Speaker 1
[00.24.08]Definitely the latter. So if if anyone listening is thinking about journaling and you like that long
paragraph form, I would encourage you to write more about how you're feeling rather than what you're
doing. Or use Jay's tactic, which I really I'm going to start using that myself, where you're you're writing
a letter to yourself ahead of time to basically you're giving yourself reassurance for those times when
you're struggling. Were you able to reduce the number of medications that you were
Speaker 2
[00.24.40]
taking? Yeah, at about I believe it was age 14 or so. 13 and 14 was when they had me on so many
medications. And um, the, the therapist or he was the therapist slash psychiatrist that I went to that did so
much good for me, got me down to, uh, pretty much down to one medication. Oh, nice. Um, and, and
that made a whole lot of difference in, um, you know, I've been on that same one ever since then, so. And
that was probably in, um, 2003, I would imagine. I think it was 2003. So I've been on the same one since
then. And, um, you know, it doesn't it doesn't fix everything, but, um, it definitely, uh, you know, has
made things better than they
Speaker 1
[00.25.25]
were. Yeah. And sometimes medication is necessary. I mean, some, some people are like really anti
medication. Some people use too much medication and they just can't take enough of it. But finding that
right balance for your bio individuality I think is so, so important because you don't want unintended
consequences or side effects, but you do want to be able to reduce those symptoms to where you can
function and thrive in life as part of your your struggles with mental illness. I know you described. With
one medication. I don't know if it was the first one. The antipsychotic that you felt like it made you put
on a lot of weight? Yeah. The, um, it's, uh, one of the psychiatrist. The one that, you know, thought just
just a bunch of medication was a solution. Um, he put me on that antipsychotic to to help with tics. But,
um, instead of doing that, you know, aside from some other side effects, it made me gain weight rapidly.
Um, you know, I mean, I was, I think I was, I was 13, so I was, you know, everybody thought it was
normal at first when I gained a little bit of weight, but then it just it just kept piling on and, um, you
know, to the point that I didn't even look the same anymore. And, um, you know, that that made life
really difficult for me then, because, you know, as a teenager, everybody cares about how you look, you
know, how that is. And, um,
Speaker 2
[00.26.54]
so I kind of developed a little bit of an eating disorder from that as well. Not like, not like a full blown,
but just the kind of thing where I became really picky and, like, self-conscious about what I ate. Um, and,
you know, like I say in the book that followed me for years, um, you know, to where I was doing a little
bit of just not eating as healthy as I should. Um, and, uh. But you know it. I feel like I overcame that. I'm
still, you know. You know, uh, I still have OCD tendencies about the way I eat, but it's not related to that
particular issue anymore.
Speaker 1
[00.27.33]
Okay, great. Yeah. And that's actually not something I think about very much where medications could
cause a person to gain weight. So I'm trained as a therapist and a nutritionist. And so I'm more inclined to
go to food first. Um, but medications could be part of that equation. And I never really thought of that
being an unintended side effect where it could change the biology just enough to where your body is
utilizing the food that you're eating in in such a way that you're packing on weight.
Speaker 2[00.28.05]
that's part of it,
Yeah. And I was I was definitely eating a lot more to it made me really hungry. And I ate a lot too. So
Speaker 1
[00.28.13]
you know? Okay. So it affected your hunger signaling to and and maybe affected your cravings. So
maybe it changed your your food choices as well. Mhm. So going back to we were talking about
medication. We were talking about diagnoses as labels. Um, and I kind of wanted to share this one thing.
I have a background in sociology. That's what I got my undergraduate degree in, and I also studied
criminology as part of my criminology classes. We focused on what's called labeling theory, which to me
is just so fascinating. I think they should teach this to clinicians too. But labeling theory essentially
means that if a person is given a specific label, even if it doesn't accurately describe them, they will
subconsciously start to change their behavior to accommodate that label. So, for example, um, in the
context of criminology, if you were to label somebody a criminal, even if they've never actually
committed a crime or never been convicted or arrested or anything like that, just giving them that label
over time, I'm not saying they're just overnight going to become a serial killer, but over time they will
start to subconsciously accommodate that label of being a criminal. So they might, for instance, start
being a little bit more dishonest or other social deviant behaviors Eventually it kind of depends on on the
person and how mindful they are with it, but if they're not really keeping themselves in check, it could
escalate into becoming a full on criminal. And I see that with mental disorder diagnoses as well as
physical diagnoses, where if a person takes that too much on as part of their identity, they kind of use it
as an excuse not to get better. But then it also kind of makes things worse. Have you noticed that, like in
your personal experience or in talking to other people where like people kind of they take on that label as
their identity a little bit too much to where it makes it worse.
Speaker 2
[00.30.18]
Yeah. Um, you know, when I worked in the school system, I definitely saw that some with kids with
ADHD, you know, um, you know, a lot of times they would, you know, if they miss their medicine, they
would act out and they would, you know, they would, uh, just, you know, they'd say, oh, I'm, I'm ADHD
or I'm, you know, I didn't take my medicine so I can act however I want and this and that and the other.
And then, um, as far as, like other mental things, I've seen people that get diagnosed and then, you know,
their Facebook page becomes a. Just a thing of darkness or something. You know how what I'm talking
about, like, you know, depressing posts and all that stuff as soon as they get diagnosed or something.
And some people just, you know, they, they become, I guess, their diagnosis. I've seen that
Speaker 1
[00.31.01]
too. Yeah. And in some ways, I'm not saying a diagnosis is all bad. Like in some ways it's good because
like I was saying before, it can really give you some direction on where to move forward. And and so I'm
really careful when I diagnose people. I have to diagnose everyone I see, regardless of how severe their
symptoms are. So for example, like if they've got severe depression, they might come to me knowing that
they're depressed. But if I'm diagnosing them with a severe major depressive disorder, I don't necessarily
want to tell them that because that almost validates their suspicion, which then basically it kind of gives
them permission to go outside of therapy to live their lives telling everybody that this is what they have,
and they act as if it's a permanent, lifelong diagnosis. Mhm. And I think that's where you're crossing the
line from. This is a helpful label to I'm taking it too far and I'm using it as part of my identity. And it's
creating problems for me. Right. And it kind of seems like especially younger generations as we
normalize these labels, younger generations seem to be doing that a lot more. Definitely. But what they're
failing to realize is a diagnosis is not only is it a manmade label, but it's meant to be temporary. And so
really what it does is it describes the cluster of symptoms that you're dealing with. And so we just we
need to be mindful as we think about those labels that we have. Tourette's is a really difficult one becauseI think in graduate school I was kind of taught from like a psychosocial model. And so when I had those
two patients that I mentioned earlier who had Tourette's or a tic disorder, I approached it from a
psychosocial model, which isn't necessarily bad, but it's more of a neurological problem rather than a
psychosocial problem. And that's where it might be a lifelong thing. Okay. So now shifting a little bit to
rewriting the narrative. So we talked about the various diagnoses that you've had or the labels we've
we've talked about how that's really affected your life and different ways that you've overcome those
things. But for the listeners out there, how can we create a more empowering narrative around mental
health in general? So I know that you wrote the book kind of to empower readers, but if you were to give
some advice, what would be the first thing that you would tell people?
Speaker 2
[00.33.36]
I think you know for sure. We need to, uh, continue to promote awareness. Um, and even more
importantly, you know, acceptance. Um, I think awareness and acceptance is definitely going to. It's
going to encourage people to, you know, to come forward with what they're feeling and to, um,
ultimately, hopefully seek help, which is what everybody, you know, really needs to do. Because, um, the
longer you go without seeking help, the worse things can get. Um, but I think that we just need to we
need to keep, keep on working on that awareness and that
Speaker 1
[00.34.12]
acceptance. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, seeking help is it's a big thing that a lot of us don't get because
there might be a cost barrier or we don't know where to find the right person who can help us. Um, there
are various reasons that we don't get the help. I know statistically, there's they say that there's a quote
unquote shortage of therapists, but I know a lot of therapists who don't have full schedules. And I think it
part of it has to do with the cost. Another part of it has to do with maybe you're just really busy and you
feel like you can't take an hour off of work every week to go to therapy or to see your doctor for an
adjustment for your medication. And so some of it is time management there. There are so many reasons,
but getting the help that you need can go a long way rather than trying to figure it all out yourself. And
there are some things that you could do yourself. So like I mean we mentioned exercise, we mentioned
journaling, we mentioned some cognitive strategies. So like there are some things that you could try right
now that might help, but they might not be totally right for you and your specific needs. And it can really
help to hire somebody to help you figure out what you need. Yeah,
Speaker 2
[00.35.30]
definitely this. You know, it's going to be different for everybody. And the same thing that works for,
you know, me won't work for you and all that. So, you know, it's important to like I said, you know, just
figure out what works for you. And you may have to work at it for a while. And it's not always going to
be easy. But, you know, once you find it, it'll very much be worth it. How
Speaker 1
[00.35.49]
would you approach somebody who seems to be using their label a little bit too much as part of their
identity, and in such a way that it might be hurting them? How would you bring that up to them?
Speaker 2
[00.36.02]
Um, I guess I would, you know, just, you know, subtly address it with them. Um, you know, maybe, uh,
just kind of go around the question without asking it directly, you know, asking them if they're they think
they might be using it too much or something. Um, I definitely wouldn't want to, uh, just, you know,completely confront them. But, um, you know, I would address it in such a way that was subtle. I would
say.
Speaker 1
[00.36.35]
Yeah. I mean, that is a really hard one, because I think most people would get really offended because
they take it on as part of their identity. They would perceive it as being attacked, like like they are
personally being attacked. And so it is a really delicate situation where it's like, how do you explain to
people that this could be hurting them without making it feel too personal?
Speaker 2
[00.37.01]
Right. Yeah. That's challenging. Yeah.
Speaker 1
[00.37.05]
And so that's kind of my hope as, as I mentioned this on this podcast for listeners like, I don't know who
my listeners are. And so hopefully if you're listening to this and you feel like you might be using your
label a little bit too much as part of your identity, that's an opportunity for some introspection. Like, I'm
not calling you out personally because I don't know who you are or what your label might be. Mhm.
Speaker 2
[00.37.30]
Absolutely. And yet, to reiterate, you know, it's just uh, for those that might be overusing it, you know, if,
um, if you start overusing it and keep it up, you know, it will define you and we're, you know, talking
about, you know, not being defined by these things. And so, you know, if you're overusing it, I definitely
think you should just kind of like you said, introspection, self evaluate and uh, do some thinking on that.
Speaker 1
[00.37.58]
I have noticed that in other contexts as well. So like with politics as an example, or like I mentioned,
physical medical diagnoses, there are various labels that we could take on where from a neurological
standpoint. So for instance, going back to that criminal example, if I were to label myself a criminal, I'm
actually rebuilding neural pathways in my brain. The more I think about that and I'm physically changing
my brain to accommodate those thoughts, and as those neural pathways build, it becomes a belief. And
the more you believe it, the more you start to change your behavior to accommodate that belief. Right?
Which then becomes your reality. And so, so like I said, you could do that with politics. You could do
that with a lot of things. But I think the important thing here is just being mindful of where your thoughts
are, like, how are you approaching life? How are you approaching your your thoughts, your emotions,
maybe your physical symptoms if you have any. And. Consider maybe changing that reframing that. So
like so Jay, in your book, you kind of talked about reframing that a little bit, uh, particularly for um, let's
see if I can remember depression, like having compassion for depression. Yeah. How do you how do you
do that? Do you have any specific strategies for developing self-compassion?
Speaker 2
[00.39.27]
Yeah. Um, you know, it's like I said, you know, you kind of look at depression not as this terrible enemy,
but look at it as a way of like, it's it's just trying to make sense of the crazy world around me. And it's,
you know, you could even say it has good intentions, you know, and kind of just understand that maybeit's trying to help you instead of just instead of just hating, you know, your illness. Um, a lot of times I do
that with OCD. Sometimes I get so frustrated with the thoughts, but then I'm like, it's okay. This is just
my mind's way of trying to. Help me cope with everything that's going on around me and, you know,
have a little compassion for it that way. And, and I think it's better for you physically, mentally, all that if
you have compassion for these things rather than just anger and, you know, hate and all that because
those things, uh, will build up over time and, you know, they come out in various ways, maybe physical
ways or whatever. So, um, you know, I think just like it's best to have compassion on other people, you
should have it on yourself and even your, uh, illnesses and struggles that you're going through as well.
Speaker 1
[00.40.43]
Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's a glaring common issue in a clinical context where it seems like most
people really struggle with a lack of self-compassion or self-love. And so if we can learn to foster that
self-love, that self-compassion, it's going to be a lot easier to kind of separate yourself from that, that
label, that diagnosis and just say, this doesn't define me. This is more of an issue that I'm dealing with for
now, right? But it doesn't have to be a permanent part of my identity, right? Because I am who I am, I am
not my diagnosis.
Speaker 2
[00.41.23]
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1
[00.41.25]
That brings me to at the very end of your book. That's basically what you say, right? I mean, what was it?
You are more than your diagnosis. Tell us what you mean by that. You
Speaker 2
[00.41.37]
know, um, you know, sometimes when you get a diagnosis, it's easy to just maybe become that, you
know, um, like you said, once you hear something, when somebody tells you that you are this or you are
that, your mind starts to think that you are and believe it. And you know, the way I try to go about every
day is, you know, saying, you know, I'm I'm not just Tourette's or anxiety, you know, I'm just I'm me.
Yes. I have to deal with those things. And it gets difficult sometimes. But, you know, I'm more than that.
You know, I have, uh, likes and interests and hobbies and all this kind of thing. And, um, you know, it's
really just about understanding. Accepting that you have something without becoming it. Um. So I think
that's that's very important to come to that realization that you can you can be whatever you want to be,
even if you have something like this. So coming up on the end here, I'm going to ask you one question. If
you were to change the way people approach health and wellness, just one thing that you could change
about that, what would it be? Um, I would say we need more compassion for people, more compassion
and understanding. Um, because, you know, um, I've never felt better than when I felt like I was kind of
understood and sympathized with.
Speaker 1
[00.43.04]
So. Okay. And one last thing. How can people find you if if they are, for instance, they want to buy your
book or if they want to find you in other ways? Yeah,
Speaker 2
[00.43.13]absolutely. Um, so if anybody wants to find me, they can do, uh, like a Google search for J. Edwards.
Holt. That's the letter J. Edwards Holt. Or you can go to J. Com um, in addition to that, um, on all this
social media outlets with the, um, tag AJ Holt. Um, and then I've got a number of fiction books, but, um,
if anybody wants to find they don't define me. They can, uh, you know, Google search it or Amazon
search it. And, um, it's available wherever books are sold.
Speaker 1
[00.43.47]
Awesome. Great having you, Jay. Thanks.
Speaker 2
[00.43.49]
Thank you for having me, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1
[00.43.50]
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review that really helps me out and also subscribe to
the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. Real Food Mental Health is intended for informational
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